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Subject: Re: Does your program see the winning sequence in this position?

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 12:37:23 03/04/00

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On March 04, 2000 at 15:04:35, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:

>On March 04, 2000 at 13:52:43, Ed Schröder wrote:
>
>>On March 04, 2000 at 12:56:41, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>
>>>Take a look at this position.  Arose from a game a friend played against Chess
>>>Genius 5.0 on his AMD K6/200 (only 4MB hash):
>>>
>>>[D]k7/1b6/8/8/2Q5/8/6p1/6K1 w - -
>>>
>>>
>>>Genius was set at 5 seconds per move and could not find the win (marching his
>>>King towards the enemy....). Please try your programs at faster time controls
>>>and let me know how they do.
>>>
>>>How exasperatingly dumb programs can be at times!  BTW, I had to time to test
>>>only Shredder 3 and it found the winning sequence easily.
>>>
>>>
>>>***  Djordje
>>
>>Not having tried this position on my own baby consider this: why add
>>extra chess knowledge if these kind of things can so easily seen by
>>search. No need to do things twice as the extra knowledge is only
>>lowering the NPS of a program. I am not saying this is true for this
>>position only that programmers often let do search the work instead
>>of adding extra chess knowledge that is not needed anymore now that
>>PC's are are so fast and becoming faster and faster and faster.....
>>
>>As you see in some cases you can even make your program stronger by
>>removing chess knowledge. These cases are exceptional but they do
>>exist.
>>
>>Ed
>
>Ed, your baby does VERY well on this position (Rebel 10).  Actually it is even
>slightly faster than Shredder 3 :) However, I don't think that I agree with you
>regarding knowledge in some typical situations (one of which I just presented).
>In this particular situation some of the fast searchers (Fritz, Deep Junior on
>my dual board, even Hiarcs 7.1, Crafty SMP, etc. NOTA BENE: no tablebases this
>time!) are having trouble finding the win.  Instead of watching the g1 promoting
>square with their Queen and marching the King into mating Black, these fast
>finders check Black ad nauseam.  Irritating.
>
>***  Djordje

I see. I took the wrong position to make my point.

Ed



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