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Subject: Re: Repetition/draw test

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:47:32 03/08/00

Go up one level in this thread


On March 08, 2000 at 09:41:05, blass uri wrote:

>On March 08, 2000 at 07:23:47, José Carlos wrote:
>
>>On March 08, 2000 at 06:29:13, blass uri wrote:
>>
>>>On March 08, 2000 at 05:11:11, Howard Exner wrote:
>>>
>>>>Test your chess engine if it handles this repition theme correctly. To do this
>>>>set up the position below and play the white side yourself. Do not enter the
>>>>winning move Kh5 but instead play the blunder Kg5. Now let your program play the
>>>>black side at say game/15. It will of course play Kd5+ which forces perpetual
>>>>check. After it does that try to trick the program and reply Kg4.
>>>>Now the test - does your program play the correct Qd1+ or does it blunder and
>>>>mistakenly repeat the position with Qe4+, assuming that the opponent will
>>>>blunder again with Kg5? Rebel Century failed this test and assumed white would
>>>>play again the poor move Kg5.
>>>>Why would a program do this? Do other programs fall into this trap of assuming
>>>>a repetition of moves even when not forced?
>>>
>>>I believe that many programs falls into this trap because they evaluate second
>>>repetition as a draw.
>>>
>>>It is usually not important against computers because computers do not do
>>>tactical blunders but it may be important against humans.
>>>
>>>The reason that programs do it is that most of the programs were not designed in
>>>the right way.
>>
>>  I disagree. I think that is the right way of doing things. Programs (including
>>mine) test for second repetition assuming both sides played the best moves they
>>found. Testing third repetition instead of second takes way longer, and you need
>>two extra plies to find it.
>>  You can choose testing third instead of second, it is not any difficult to
>>implement, but there will be very few cases where this will help, and a lot of
>>cases where this will slow down the search: more time for the test, more plies
>>to find it and you cannot return the draw value in second, so you have to
>>generate many more nodes.
>>
>>  Just my opinion, anyway.
>>
>>  José C.
>
>I do not suggest to test for third repetition but only to ignore previous
>positions in the test for second repetition (with the exception of cases when
>there was a repetition of previous positions).
>
>I do not think that it is going to slow down the search significantly because I
>believe that most of the repetition in the search are repetitions of positions
>that were not in the game.
>
>Uri


This is probably wrong.   ie I play Ng1-f3 on the board.  The next move I
might try is Nf3-g1.  That is a repetition.  That you won't treat as a
repetition.  This happens more than a few times in the search...  Searching
below Nf3-g1 until I play Ng1-f3 again takes some work that could be avoided
here, leaving open the hole already mentioned...



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