Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 20:27:17 03/27/00
Go up one level in this thread
On March 27, 2000 at 23:24:04, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On March 27, 2000 at 11:27:54, Christophe Theron wrote: > >>On March 27, 2000 at 09:08:59, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On March 26, 2000 at 11:45:38, Christophe Theron wrote: >>> >>>>On March 25, 2000 at 23:13:49, Tina Long wrote: >>>> >>>>>On March 25, 2000 at 14:28:13, James Robertson wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On March 25, 2000 at 13:41:28, Roger wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Would tablebases for Tiger have changed this result at all? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Roger >>>>>> >>>>>>Maybe a quarter of a point.... My experience with tablebases is that if the >>>>>>program is moderately smart it doesn't benefit tremendously from them. >>>>>> >>>>>>James >>>>>> >>>>>Ed Schroder said about 6 months ago that Tablebases were worth about 10 points >>>>>on the SSDF scale. >>>>> >>>>>I'm 70% sure he said that! I'm 100% sure that Ed said once that something was >>>>>worth very little rating points. >>>>> >>>>>I'm glad I could add some real detail to this discussion. >>>>> >>>>>Tina Long >>>> >>>> >>>>As far as I know, endgames are not Tiger's weak point. >>>> >>>>One thing I'm sure about: as far as playing strength is the subject, I have a >>>>long list of ideas that, in my opinion, will give much more than tablebases. >>>> >>>>It does not matter if tablebases are easy to implement or not (they are not, >>>>unless you want to do it the dirty way, and I won't), I don't see the point in >>>>working on this before I fix more important things. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Christophe >>> >>> >>>I am not wild about helping the competition, but you have one huge hold. You >>>don't know that KPB vs K is a draw if the wrong colored bishop is on the board. >>>Ditto for KPPB vs K, assuming all P's are rook pawns. I have seen Crafty draw >>>lost endings when you let it swindle you into such an ending. One ending >>>was you had a king, and pawns on a and b file + wrong bishop. Crafty had a pawn >>>on the a file. It pushed and you took with your b pawn rather than just pushing >>>past it and winning... >>> >>>Consider that my tip of the year. :) >>> >>>There are others. But I also have them too. :) >> >> >>Well... Thanks Bob. >> >>I thought Tiger knew about KBP vs K, but I'll check again. Or maybe you noticed >>this on an old version of Tiger. >> >>I admit I still have to cover some of the other cases. I'll probably do it, as I >>prefer to have the knowledge than to rely on endgame databases. Tiger will >>eventually have EGTB support, but I want to allow my users to not load them on >>their hard disks. For many occasional players, it does not make sense to stuff >>their disks with 1Gb of chess databases. >> >> >> >> Christophe > > >Note that it was KBPP vs K... you had _two_ pawns on the a file... that is >usually what screws everyone up here except for us bitmappers, as the way I >do the test will work the same with 1 or 6 pawns on the a file. :) as far as users adding 1 gig of stuff to their disks... you would _not_ believe the number of tablebase downloads I have seen from my ftp machine. We maintain 50+ users, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year, and are running a 100mbit/second link out of that machine at an _average_ of 70 megabits/second averaged over the last year. And there are a few mirror sites scattered around that I don't keep up with either... And the most requested thing I get is "can you put all those 7 gigs of files (3-4-5 men endings) and put 'em on CDs for a reasonable fee?"
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