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Subject: Re: Fritz6a's stupid blunder

Author: Mark Young

Date: 11:13:29 04/09/00

Go up one level in this thread


On April 09, 2000 at 13:49:48, Ernst Walet wrote:

>On April 09, 2000 at 13:16:59, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>I can explain this I think, it is a problem with Fritz 6a's probe depth of the
>>tablebase. The default is set to 3, and below in the first analysis will find
>>Fritz 6a can not see that Kf3 is a draw in a short time. Below that is the
>>analysis of Fritz 6a with the probe depth of the tablebases set to 0. ( the
>>lower the number the more fritz 6a probes the tablebases (more TB hits)) When
>>set to a lower setting or more tablebase probes, Fritz 6a see very quickly that
>>Kf3 is a draw and Kh3 is winning.
>>
>>New position
>>8/8/5K2/6Q1/4ppk1/4P3/5q2/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fritz 6: Tablebase depth set to 3(default)
>>
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  ³  (-0.69)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2
>>  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2
>>  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3
>>  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3
>>  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 3/7   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3!
>>  µ  (-0.75)   Depth: 4/6   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-f5
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 4/7   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-f5 Qf2-c2+ 4.Kf5-e6
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 5/9   00:00:00, tb=1
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-f5 Qf2-c2+ 4.Kf5-e6 e3-e2
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 6/13   00:00:00, tb=2
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g2 3.e3xf4 e4-e3 4.Qf5-g4+
>>  ³  (-0.69)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00  6kN, tb=8
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g2 3.e3xf4 Kg2-f3 4.Qf5-g5 e4-e3
>>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:00  46kN, tb=33
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g2 3.e3xf4 Kg2-f3 4.Qf5-g5 e4-e3
>>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:00  189kN, tb=136
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g2 3.e3xf4 Kg2-f3 4.Qf5-g5 e4-e3
>>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:01  510kN, tb=429
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  µ  (-0.94)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:02  654kN, tb=577
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-f5 Qf2-c2+ 4.Kf5-f6 Qc2-c6+ 5.Kf6-f7 e3-e2
>>6.Qg5-h5+
>>  -+  (-2.66)   Depth: 10/25   00:00:04  1535kN, tb=890
>>1...Kg4-f3!
>>  -+  (-2.97)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:06  2273kN, tb=1529
>>1...Kg4-f3! 2.Qg5-h5+ Kf3xe3 3.Qh5-c5+ Ke3-f3 4.Qc5-h5+ Kf3-g2 5.Qh5-g4+ Qf2-g3
>>6.Qg4-e2+
>>  -+  (-4.13)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:14  4839kN, tb=2776
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5-h5+ Kf3xe3 3.Qh5-c5+ Ke3-f3 4.Qc5-h5+ Kf3-g2 5.Qh5-g4+ Qf2-g3
>>6.Qg4-e2+
>>  -+  (-4.19)   Depth: 12/28   00:00:17  6124kN, tb=4307
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5-h5+ Kf3xe3 3.Qh5-c5+ Ke3-f3 4.Qc5-h5+ Kf3-g2 5.Qh5-g4+ Qf2-g3
>>6.Qg4-e2+
>>  -+  (-4.38)   Depth: 13/30   00:00:40  14115kN, tb=11538
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5-h5+ Kf3xe3 3.Qh5-c5+ Ke3-f3 4.Qc5-h5+ Kf3-g2 5.Qh5-g4+ Qf2-g3
>>6.Qg4-e2+
>>  -+  (-4.44)   Depth: 14/34   00:01:13  25644kN, tb=25364
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5-h5+ Kf3xe3 3.Qh5-c5+ Ke3-f3 4.Qc5-h5+ Kf3-g2 5.Qh5-g4+ Qf2-g3
>>6.Qg4-e2+
>>  -+  (-4.69)   Depth: 15/36   00:02:49  59277kN, tb=74801
>>1...Kg4-f3--
>>  -+  (-4.38)   Depth: 16/36   00:05:02  106030kN, tb=149103
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4 e4-e3 5.f4-f5 Ke2-d1
>>6.f5-f6
>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 16/36   00:05:07  107824kN, tb=151866
>>1...Kg4-h3
>>  =  (0.12)   Depth: 16/37   00:05:36  118506kN, tb=171141
>>
>>(Young, 09.04.2000)
>>
>>New position
>>8/8/5K2/6Q1/4ppk1/4P3/5q2/8 b - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Fritz 6: Tablebase depth set to 0
>>
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 1/1   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 1/1   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 2/2   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 2/3   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 3/6   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 4/5   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 5/5   00:00:00
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 6/6   00:00:00, tb=6
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 7/15   00:00:00, tb=15
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4
>>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 8/19   00:00:00  3kN, tb=68
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g3 4.Qf5-g5+ Kg3-f3 5.f4-f5 e3-e2
>>6.Qg5-h5+
>>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 9/22   00:00:00  117kN, tb=1240
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-e5 e3-e2 4.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-h2 5.Qf5-h5+ Kh2-g1
>>6.Qh5-g4+
>>  µ  (-1.16)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:01  379kN, tb=4094
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  µ  (-1.19)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:02  505kN, tb=5624
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5-h5+ Kf3xe3 3.Qh5-c5+ Ke3-f3 4.Qc5-h5+ Kf3-g2 5.Qh5-g4+ Qf2-g3
>>6.Qg4-e2+
>>  -+  (-4.28)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:09  2460kN, tb=18974
>>1...Kg4-f3--
>>  -+  (-3.97)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:10  3003kN, tb=24331
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4 e4-e3 5.f4-f5 Ke2-d2
>>6.f5-f6
>>  µ  (-0.75)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:11  3061kN, tb=25305
>>1...Kg4-h3
>>  µ  (-0.78)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:12  3290kN, tb=28942
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-h2 3.e3xf4 e4-e3 4.Kf6-e5 Qf2-b2+ 5.Ke5-e6 e3-e2
>>6.Qf5-a5
>>  µ  (-1.28)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:18  4943kN, tb=43577
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-h2 3.Qf5-h5+ Kh2-g2 4.Qh5-g5+ Kg2-f1 5.e3xf4 e4-e3
>>6.Qg5-h6
>>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:22  5911kN, tb=56274
>>1...Kg4-f3
>>  -+  (-1.47)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:23  6242kN, tb=61537
>>1...Kg4-f3--
>>  µ  (-1.16)   Depth: 13/22   00:00:24  6274kN, tb=62399
>>1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4 e4-e3 5.f4-f5 Ke2-d1
>>  =  (0.00)   Depth: 13/26   00:00:25  6559kN, tb=67032
>>1...Kg4-h3
>>  =  (0.12)   Depth: 13/28   00:00:27  7030kN, tb=75803
>>1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-h2 3.Qf5-h5+ Kh2-g2 4.Qh5-g5+ Kg2-f1 5.e3xf4 e4-e3
>>6.Qg5-h6
>>  -+  (-1.47)   Depth: 13/31   00:00:35  9051kN, tb=99962
>>1...Kg4-h3!
>>  -+  (-1.78)   Depth: 14/33   00:01:12  16737kN, tb=207690
>>1...Kg4-h3! 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g2 3.Qf5xe4+ f4-f3 4.Kf6-e5 Qf2-g3+ 5.Ke5-f6 Qg3-d6+
>>6.Kf6-g5
>>  -+  (-2.56)   Depth: 14/33   00:01:28  20979kN, tb=261110
>>
>>(Young, St. 09.04.2000)
>
>
>The problem is not the probe depth, but the handling of 5 piece TBs, as with
>only 3- and 4 piece TBs Fritz6a does play Kh3 from depth 7 at 0 seconds.
>
>Ernst.

You could be right, but what ever the problem is it is only with Fritz 6a, Old
fritz 6 and other programs work just fine.


8/8/5K2/6Q1/4ppk1/4P3/5q2/8 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Fritz 6 Old:

1...Kg4-f3
  =  (0.03)   Depth: 1/2   00:00:00
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2
  =  (0.12)   Depth: 1/6   00:00:00
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2
  =  (0.12)   Depth: 2/8   00:00:00
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 3/10   00:00:00
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 4/11   00:00:00  1kN
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4 Ke2-f3
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  6kN
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4 Ke2-f3 5.f4-f5
  =  (0.03)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  16kN, tb=4
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 7/17   00:00:00  34kN, tb=22
1...Kg4-f3 2.Qg5xf4+ Kf3-e2 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2xf4+ 4.e3xf4
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:00  87kN, tb=67
1...Kg4-h3
  =  (0.12)   Depth: 8/21   00:00:00  193kN, tb=190
1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-e5 e3-e2 4.Qg5-h5+ Kh3-g3 5.Qh5-g6+ Kg3-f3
6.Qg6-c6+
  =  (0.00)   Depth: 9/21   00:00:01  474kN, tb=431
1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2-f3 4.f4-f5 e3-e2 5.Qg5-h6+ Kh3-g3 6.Qh6-d2
  =  (-0.03)   Depth: 10/24   00:00:02  1056kN, tb=1247
1...Kg4-h3 2.e3xf4 e4-e3 3.Kf6-e5 Qf2-f3 4.Qg5-d8 e3-e2 5.Qd8-d2 Kh3-g4
6.Qd2-d7+
  =  (-0.06)   Depth: 11/27   00:00:05  2153kN, tb=3068
1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-h2 3.Qf5-h5+ Kh2-g2 4.Qh5-g5+ Qf2-g3 5.e3xf4 e4-e3
6.Qg5-d5+
  ³  (-0.28)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:10  4496kN, tb=8220
1...Kg4-h3 2.Qg5-f5+ Kh3-g2 3.Qf5xe4+ f4-f3 4.Kf6-f5 Qf2-g3 5.Kf5-f6 Qg3-g8
6.Qe4-c6
  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 13/31   00:00:35  15064kN, tb=25183
1...Kg4-h3!
  µ  (-0.75)   Depth: 14/32   00:00:58  24560kN, tb=48054

(Young, 09.04.2000)









>
>New position
>8/8/5K2/6Q1/4ppk1/4P3/5q2/8 b - - 0 1
>
>Analysis by Fritz 6:
>
>1...Kf3
>  ³  (-0.38)   Depth: 1/3   00:00:00
>1...Kf3 2.Qxf4+ Ke2
>  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 1/5   00:00:00
>1...Kf3 2.Qxf4+ Ke2
>  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 2/7   00:00:00
>1...Kf3 2.Qxf4+ Ke2 3.Kf5
>  =  (-0.19)   Depth: 3/9   00:00:00
>1...Kh3
>  =  (-0.22)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00  1kN
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+
>  =  (-0.25)   Depth: 3/11   00:00:00  1kN
>1...Kh3 2.exf4 Qb6+ 3.Kf5 e3 4.Qg4+ Kh2
>  ³  (-0.34)   Depth: 4/14   00:00:00  3kN
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kg2 3.exf4 e3 4.Ke5
>  ³  (-0.41)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  8kN
>1...Kf3!
>  ³  (-0.44)   Depth: 5/14   00:00:00  11kN
>1...Kf3! 2.exf4 e3 3.f5 e2
>  µ  (-0.78)   Depth: 5/15   00:00:00  15kN
>1...Kf3 2.Qxf4+ Ke2 3.Ke5 Qxf4+ 4.exf4 e3 5.f5
>  ³  (-0.63)   Depth: 6/15   00:00:00  24kN
>1...Kf3 2.Qxf4+ Ke2 3.Ke5 Qxf4+ 4.exf4 e3 5.f5 Kd2
>  ³  (-0.56)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:00  38kN, tb=3
>1...Kh3
>  ³  (-0.59)   Depth: 7/18   00:00:00  57kN, tb=5
>1...Kh3 2.exf4 e3 3.Qf5+ Kg3 4.Kg5 e2 5.Qg4+ Kh2
>  µ  (-0.75)   Depth: 7/19   00:00:00  79kN, tb=8
>1...Kh3 2.exf4 e3 3.Qf5+ Kg3 4.Qg5+ Kf3 5.f5 e2 6.Qh5+
>  µ  (-0.88)   Depth: 8/20   00:00:01  137kN, tb=28
>1...Kh3 2.exf4 e3 3.Qf5+ Kg3 4.Qg5+ Kf3 5.f5 e2 6.Qh5+
>  µ  (-0.91)   Depth: 9/24   00:00:02  291kN, tb=96
>1...Kh3 2.exf4 e3 3.Ke5 e2 4.Qf5+ Kh2 5.Qh5+ Kg1 6.Qg4+
>  µ  (-1.16)   Depth: 10/26   00:00:04  812kN, tb=384
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kh2 3.exf4 e3 4.Ke5 e2
>  µ  (-1.34)   Depth: 11/26   00:00:07  1668kN, tb=956
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kh2 3.Qh5+ Kg2 4.Qg5+ Kf1 5.exf4 e3 6.Qh6
>  -+  (-1.44)   Depth: 12/29   00:00:12  3350kN, tb=2385
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kh2 3.Qh5+ Kg2 4.Qg5+ Kf1 5.exf4 e3 6.Qh6
>  -+  (-1.47)   Depth: 13/31   00:00:21  6445kN, tb=5564
>1...Kh3!
>  -+  (-1.78)   Depth: 14/34   00:00:38  12178kN, tb=10882
>1...Kh3!
>  -+  (-2.09)   Depth: 15/35   00:01:20  28383kN, tb=25109
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kh2 3.Qh5+ Kg2 4.Qg5+ Kf1 5.Qb5+ Ke1 6.Qb1+
>  -+  (-2.25)   Depth: 15/36   00:02:26  54195kN, tb=43285
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kh2 3.Qh5+ Kg2 4.exf4 Qxf4+ 5.Ke6 e3 6.Qe2+
>  -+  (-2.50)   Depth: 16/37   00:05:19  121818kN, tb=103732
>1...Kh3 2.Qf5+ Kh2 3.Qh5+ Kg2 4.exf4 Qxf4+ 5.Ke6 e3 6.Qe2+
>  -+  (-2.56)   Depth: 17/39   00:14:13  336495kN, tb=257909



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