Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 07:21:42 04/22/00
Go up one level in this thread
On April 22, 2000 at 02:25:24, Jason Williamson wrote: >From the CFC Handbook: Laws of Chess: > >9.2. The game is drawn, upon a correct claim by the player having the move, when >the same position, for at least the third time (not > necessarily by repetition of moves) > > (a) is about to appear, if he first writes his move on his scoresheet and >declares to the arbiter his intention to make this move, or > > (b) has just appeared. > > Positions as in (a) and (b) are considered the same, if the same player has >the move, pieces of the same kind and colour occupy the same > squares, and the possible moves of all the pieces of both players are the >same. Positions are not the same if a pawn could have been > captured en passant or if the right to castle immediately or in the future >has been changed. > >Bob, note the word ABOUT in 9.2(A) which means you have to claim the draw as >pete said. > > That really doesn't change a thing: (1) on a chess server this is impossible to do at present. The xboard implementation works and everyone understands how this works on a server, namely that you make your move and claim the draw, unless the position was repeated by your opponent but he didn't claim the draw, and you can even before you move. (2) in a real tournament, the operator makes moves and relays draw offers/ claims. In the case of crafty's output, you see: My move 14. Nf3 I claim a draw by 3-fold repetition. both appear on the screen simultaneously. The operator then can write the move down, make the move and claim the draw. In my rule book, the move is _not_ completed until the clock is pressed, and the rules for touch-move seem to support that. But it really doesn't matter, as the _operator_ has to handle the 'timing.' It would obviously be trivial to change the order of making the move and printing the draw claim, but on a chess server it simply won't work. We have to play by the rules of chess _and_ the API offered by the chess server. > > >On April 21, 2000 at 21:35:42, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On April 21, 2000 at 18:42:08, pete wrote: >>>On April 21, 2000 at 17:46:46, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On April 21, 2000 at 16:32:21, pete wrote: >>>> >>>>>Game : Crafty17.10 (winboard)- Junior6 on 2 computers ( rest really irrelevant >>>>>); crafty played with the "official" book.bin . >>>>> >>>>>1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.0-0 Be7 6.Re1 b5 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 0-0 9.h3 >>>>>Bb7 10.d4 Re8 11.Ng5 Rf8 12.Nf3 Re8 13.Ng5 Rf8 14.Nf3 >>>>> >>>>>Here crafty claimed draw by repetition !? >>>> >>>>This looks reasonable to me. After white moves Nf3, the position is the same >>>>as it was after moves 10 and 12. Nf3 is the third repetition of that position. >>>> >>> >>>I understand : but this is not the rule as I know it : you can't claim a >>>position has appeared 3 times ; you can only say that with your following move >>>you can reach a position that was already there in the game for the 3rd time : >>>this is a slight but significant difference : so crafty can't claim draw here >>>whereas Junior could say ( after 14. Nf3 ) : " I intend Re8 and claim draw !" >>> >>>I am not 100% sure but as having played tournament games for about 20 years now >>>I am at least _quite_ sure . >>> >>>I don't have a link to FIDE rules so either way I will learn something :-) >> >> >>That is incorrect. You play your move. You tell your opponent that you claim >>a draw by repetition. You don't press the clock. You can call the TD over if >>you want. But you definitely can claim a draw _after_ you move your piece, and >>_before_ you press the clock. If you press the clock first, then you can not >>claim the draw... >> >>If you look at the position after move 10, after move 12, and after move 14, >>the _same_ position is found each time. That is a classic three-fold >>repetition...
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