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Subject: Re: Dr. Hyatt is right about chess programs not being GM level.

Author: José Antônio Fabiano Mendes

Date: 07:38:17 07/03/00

Go up one level in this thread


On July 02, 2000 at 06:38:41, Dave Gomboc wrote:

>On July 01, 2000 at 16:53:08, Peter Kappler wrote:
>
>>On July 01, 2000 at 14:51:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 01, 2000 at 13:15:36, blass uri wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 01, 2000 at 12:55:00, Dave Gomboc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 01, 2000 at 12:21:51, Adrien Regimbald wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hey,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Chinook is better at checkers than anything else on the planet -- by a wide
>>>>>>>margin.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anything _alive_ yes :P  The issue of Marion is one yet undecided - and I'm not
>>>>>>sure that Chinook could have beat him at his best, but we will never know that
>>>>>>now though .. however, it is clear that Chinook is the best checkers "player"
>>>>>>currently on the planet.  That being said, Chinook may be better than every
>>>>>>other player, but it didn't demonstrate complete dominance - the top human
>>>>>>players can still beat it once in a while :P
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Hmm, wait a minute.. we haven't asked the wombats.. :P
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Adrien.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dr. Tinsley '94 and Chinook '94 were about equal.  It's tough to compare Dr.
>>>>>Tinsley '57 and Chinook '00 though.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't know why you say that the top human players can still beat it once in a
>>>>>while.  Please cite the game.  My understanding is that it hasn't lost a game
>>>>>since the last time Tinsley beat it.  It has since clobbered both the reigning
>>>>>human world checkers champion and the reigning human world correspondence
>>>>>checkers champion.  We're talking +8 -0 =12 types of scores, and checkers is
>>>>>much more drawish than chess.
>>>>>
>>>>>Dave
>>>>
>>>>What is the information that you are based on when you say that checkers is much
>>>>more drawish than chess.
>>>>
>>>>Do the best players have more draws in checkers?
>>>
>>>Yes, by a big margin, too.  Even someone as strong as Tinsley would have a long
>>>series of draws in W.C. matches.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I read some years ago that chinook had a lot of draws because of the style of
>>>>the machine and that the result was 2:1 and 67 draws if my memory is correct.
>>>>
>>>>I suspect that one of the reason that chinook could win humans in checkers is
>>>>the fact that this game is less popular than chess so humans know it less.
>>>
>>>You _greatly_ underestimate humans here.  Tinsley had to be seen to be
>>>believed.  He was far more dominating than even Kasparov or Fischer.
>>>
>>
>>I assume checkers uses a rating system similar (probably the same, actually) to
>>the one ELO developed for chess.
>>
>>What was Tinsley's rating, and how far behind was his nearest competitor?
>>
>>--Peter
>
>Tinsley and Chinook were about equal at 2800, with 150-200 points between them
>and anything else.  Chinook isn't really active anymore, but it only gets
>stronger as new algorithms get implemented and tested at the U of A.
>
>Over a >40-year span, Tinsley lost 5 games, where that includes all serious
>competition, all "friendly" games, all simultaneous exhibitions -- everything.
>It's only 3 games if you ignore the non-tournament games, and IIRC, 2 of those
>were one-move blunders.  Even Capablanca lost more often than that. ;)
>
>Dave

Capablanca lost 36 games in his whole career. [out of 567]



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