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Subject: Re: Is

Author: Randolph S. Baker

Date: 07:42:40 11/13/97

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On November 13, 1997 at 09:16:27, Graham Laight wrote:

>
>On November 13, 1997 at 07:13:03, Chris Whittington wrote:
>
>>This is not directed specifically at Amir .......
>>
>>I think the whole lot of you are avoiding the crucial issue from the
>>games at WMCCC.
>>
>>The fast searchers, even with 767 alphas, were expected to sweep the
>>board. Manifestly they didn't.
>>
>>Some other fast searchers, running on PC's also under-performed
>>according to expectations.
>>
>>Several programs (ranging from very slow, to quite fast, but none of
>>them brute monsters) were not even spoken about before the WMCCC as
>>being of any interest, performed way above expectations.
>>
>>One program (self-promotion prize Kim-il-Sung already awarded) running
>>at 4000 nps did really rather well.
>>
>>Something is going on, and none of you is addressing it.
>>
>>Compare the cock-crowing and hubris from before the event ....
>>
>>The old knowledge-speed issue which gets jumped on as
>>boring/tedious/been through it all before/our way is best by the usual
>>culprits rears its ugly head again :)
>>
>>Chris Whittington
>
>If increasing computer hardware speed is tipping the knowledge/speed
>battle in favour of  knowledge (which seems to be the prevailing
>doctrine), then one could expect the following effects:
>
>If a clever program played a quick one at low time controls (e.g. game
>in 5), the quick ones should win.
>
>At medium time controls (e.g. tournament chess times), it should be
>getting more even.
>
>At long time controls, the clever programs should be dominant.
>
I observed a very similar pattern in playing Fritz5 versus the Hiarcs6
engine, with 1 additional discrepancy which also makes sense: at very
short (relatively) time controls, search wins over knowledge because the
knowledge programs miss tactics.  (My testing was done on a P90, so some
appropriate scale applied to the time controls compared with a P233
would also account for it).

In very fast games (e.g. 4'+2'' or 5' fixed), Fritz5 wins handily. At
modest blitz speeds (5'+12'') Hiarcs6 was even or slightly better. At
somewhat longer time controls (25' fixed), Fritz5 was slightly better. I
haven't run many tournament time matches, but I have 20 game Nunn match
at 40/2 in progress. Results for first 6 games are Fritz5 +3-2=1, (too
close to call.)


>So - if Tal was to play Fritz at a rate of 1 hour per move, would it
>have a better chance of winning? It should have. According to Chris, Tal
>should be the perfect program for correspondence chess.
>
>However, I have my doubts and suspicions as to whether it really would
>dominate at long time controls. I agree with the theory, but I have
>nagging doubts as to whether practice would agree with the theory. Has
>anyone done any testing along these lines?



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