Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 08:35:41 07/19/00
Go up one level in this thread
On July 19, 2000 at 06:31:38, Jorge Pichard wrote: >On July 18, 2000 at 23:35:14, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On July 18, 2000 at 22:54:22, Jorge Pichard wrote: >> >>>On July 18, 2000 at 19:38:14, Jerry Adams wrote: >>> >>>>On July 18, 2000 at 18:18:30, Jorge Pichard wrote: >>>> >>>>>Most people are ignoring the fact that what Mr Amir has accomplished with his >>>>>Deep Junior program three years after Deep Blue defeated Kasparov, is not an >>>>>easy task. Three years has passed by, in which most GMs have had plenty of >>>>>practices using Anti-Computer Knowledges, since Kasparov last played Deeper Blue >>>>>II in 1997. If Deep Blue was still available and confronted the same GMs that >>>>>were in Dortmund it would have not score as good as Deep Junior. Mainly for >>>>>these reasons. >>>>> >>>>>1. More Anti computer knowledges is known now than back in 1997. >>>>> >>>>>2. None of the GM would have played an open game against, knowing its great >>>>>tactical abilities and calculating power. >>>>> >>>>>3. Deep blue would have played against different type of opponents with >>>>>different styles, which make it harder for Deep Blue team such as: Hsu and >>>>>GM Nick de Firmian who prepared special opening lines against GM Kasparov. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think what you are forgetting is the fact that against Deepblue there is no >>>>such thing as Anti computer chess, even Kaspy himself admitted that. I think >>>>Deepblue would have performed better than Deepjr. the question for me is how >>>>much better? Kaspy tried to close the position when he choose the Ruy Lopez >>>>against Deepblue, but Deepblue simply outplayed him!! >>>>> >>> GM - Nick de firmian author of MCO-14 and who worked with the IBM Team as the >>>specialist who prepared Deep Blue's special opening moves for its two victories >>>explained on his introductory of his latest Modern chess Opening that Kasparov >>>played much worse than usual, trying faulty Anti-computer strategy when he would >>>likely have won by normal play. Later on on page 87 of his MCO 14th Edition he >>>explained that on the second game where Kasparov's lost to deep Blue Deep Blue >>>emerged with a large opening advantage (before it even began to think" ) which >>>put kasparov in a hole. In that game Kasparov using the closed defense of the >>>smylov variation faced a prepared opening by De Firmian where deep Blue vs >>>Kasparov played 19.a4 Nh4?1 20. Nxh4 Qxh4 21.Qe2 Qd8 22.b4 Qc7 23.Rec1 c4 >>>24.Ra3 Rec8 25.Rca1 +- and white won in 45 moves. As I explained in 3. >> >> >>I am not sure what he is talking about here, but if you look at the log file, >>DB was out of book before it played move 17 in round 2. Is he saying that >>DB had prepared analysis through at least 24 moves? The log file definitely >>refutes that as move 17 was computed by DB. >> >>Mr Hyatt Nick de Firmian did not said explicitly that Deep Blue had a prepared >analysis through line 24, the line was only prepared up to move 17 in round 2, >what he meant that it emerged with a large opening advantage ( before it beagan >to think" ) which after move 17 it was very easy for DB to come out ahead. The >important issue here is that de Firmian prepared Deep Blue with most of the >known Closed Openings assuming that Kasparov would eventually ended up playing >one of them, which he did and in that case Deep Blue would not have any major >problem coming out off the opening, since if he decided to play a normal open >line against Deep Blue it would not have encounter any major problem since >Computer excell in open games. Whereas Deep Junior was not programmed against >all the known Closed Opening defenses such as how to handle the stone Wall or >many others. > >Pichard. Don't be taken in by nonsense statements. He couldn't _possibly_ prepare lines for all the closed openings. There are billions of possibilities. If that could be done I would have done it long ago, but there are simply too many ways to alter the order of moves to reach a closed position. At move 17, where DB started thinking, its score was +.28... which is not a "huge advantage" at all. 15 moves later the score wasn't much different. >> >> >> >> >> Kasparov >>>was a single opponent known to the team of Deep Blue specially where Nick de >>>Firmian prepared a special opening lines in case Kasparov dicided to play the >>>closed defense of the Ruy Lopez which he did. It is very different when you have >>>to face 9 different opponents as deep Junior did at the Dortmund without >>>preparing any special opening lines against any of the opponents, but the humans >>>opponents some like Kramnik decided to play a very effective Anti-Computer >>>strategy such as the stone Wall Defense. >>> >>>Pichard. >>> >>>>>PS: At the same time Amir made it harder for any future programmer to challenge >>>>>any of the top 10, in Tournament Time Control, because in the future all the GM >>>>>will not DARE to play an Open game against Deep Junior or Deep Fritz SSS as in >>>>>the last game vs Leko. And unless programmers built more ABS Anti- Block- System >>>>>to prevent GMs From blocking the center and attacking on whatever side the king >>>>>castle, like on Kramnik game, the same situation will arise time after time >>>>>again. >>>>> >>>>>Pichard.
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