Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 21:03:55 08/11/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 11, 2000 at 18:04:16, Mark Young wrote: >On August 11, 2000 at 07:37:19, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On August 11, 2000 at 05:59:53, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 11, 2000 at 04:11:12, Jouni Uski wrote: >>> >>>>I wonder, if it's possible to arrange match between the two top rated (against >>>>humans) programs: Deep Junior 2702 (8*700Mhz) and PConners 2663 (160*300Mhz)? >>>>Mini match with 4-10 games will give interesting info about their strength! >>>>Just on idea... >>>> >>>>Jouni >>> >>>I guess that p.conners is going to lose. >> >>>P.conner is not commercial and it is a big advantage against humans and inspite >>>of this advantage Deep Junior did better results. >> >>>I think that a tournament with Deep Junior(8*700),Fritz6b(8*700) and Crafty on >>>the best alpha machine that it can use will be more interesting >> >>Diep 8*700 is more interesting than that. I don't see deep junior NOR >>fritz ever do better moves as they get like 15 ply anyway. DIEP hardly gets >>to tactical sufficiency. >> >>Your speculation is completely on the wrong ways. >> >>Speeding up positional weak programs like junior and fritz is not gonna >>help much. >> >>As for tactical power against p.conners, with 8 processors you don't outgun >>a 180 processor 3000$ an hour or so machine. >> >>I'm not sure that junior would in lippstadt have achieved the same >>result. Drawing junior is just TOO easy. >> >>I'm just 2255 fide rated , though very likely IM within a few years >>and 2400 rated, that's still not much nowadays to play computers. >> >>But especially drawing programs like junior, which because of their >>huge positional gaps is possible, is real easy. Winning is something >>else of course. >> >>What junior showed is that with even 2 pawns ahead against Khalifman >>it can't win. >> >>The only bad player of the tournament won from junior in 23 moves or >>so. >> >>Despite that all it's obvious that it's an advantage to know what >>program you play, (a huge advantage), nevertheless none of those >>players that junior played has ever used junior on a commputer, >>i'm quite sure of that. > >This is wrong, the players did play against Junior before the tournament. Many >of the players said so. That is only partially true. They _could_ play against Junior. But _not_ the Junior playing in the tournament. Nor could they play against an 8-way xeon 700 box either. This is similar to Kasparov using Fritz to prepare to play deep blue. It would be worse than useless, because what you think you see as weaknesses may or may not exist on a machine 8x faster than anything they might normally use, not to mention the fact that the software itself was not the commercially available version. They might have been able to practice against "something somewhat similar to the program that played" but nothing anywhere near it, when you think about it. IE I wouldn't mind at all to let a GM practice against the current version of Crafty on a PIII/600 or whatever, and then give him 3 months to play it, then play a match with my using an 8-way xeon, + 3 months of software changes. Since he would only get one game in a tournament against my program, I doubt he could find something that would work reliably... based only on playing the old version on far slower hardware... > >It is know that just about any player over 2600 can draw almost at will against >any one if that is his intent. chess is a drawish game. To suggest that a much >weak player can draw junior at will...well maybe if the player controlled what >opening junior played. > > >> >>>Uri
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