Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 02:19:32 08/17/00
Go up one level in this thread
On August 17, 2000 at 01:38:32, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 16, 2000 at 18:55:43, Marcus Kaestner wrote: > >>>>be sure that the improvement of the chessbase engines lay far behind rebel or >>>>shredder for example. >>> >>>Did you test all the chessbase engines to be sure about it? >>>Did chessbase send you their latest versions? >>> >> >>the answer is very easy: >>if they want to have a realistic chance, fritz has to gain a minimum improvement >>of 50 elo, junior has to gain a minimum of 100 elo. >> >>i know for sure that this is not the case. > >How do you know? >Did the programmers tell you that it is not the case? >> >>so chessbase will hardly be able to win the title. >> >>marcus > >Based on previous post of Amir Ban Frans Morsch is the most unrespected >programmer and amir also claimed that he is most likely going to release an >atomic bomb in his next version. I think progress on DIEP is most (but had to win a lot of terrain also), progress has been made clearly by Stefan Meyer Kahlen, Amir Ban and Frans Morsch. SOS heavily improved, Zchess heavily improved, and most likely Rebel also improved if the comments of Jeroen Noomen are taken into account for Rebel. I don't doubt that Tiger will be improved and most likely Insomniac last time i played it (1999 at dutch champs) also will be heavily improved. So with all respect. All programs are obviously going to be improved, where the stronger engine makers make more sound when making a small improvement it must be said that some stronger engines you need to work weeks to get a 1% speedup or to get 10 rating points. History has proven so, advancing at the top is real hard. No 100 points will be won here easily. This where especially the rest that was clealry below all this is getting up real quick. The real questions now are of course: do they have a real weak point yet? Engines with a real weak point are gonna have a problem, Also if their book is real weak you have a real problem. No matter how an engine improved, take for example crafty, if book is weak then you can usually already shake it, as in some programs level really has gone up there. Personally i think openingsbook as made by Jeroen Noomen are giving the best tournament preparement, though the strategical lines in shredder also give clear positions where shredder is having a positional finer position (but hard to call that killerlines). This year there will be some real strong programs with books based upon either old lines or automatically generated lines. Here the Kure book is giving a deadly advantage, as it's the best to litterary kill those old/automatically generated lines. >Based on this information I will not be surprised if Fritz's version is 100 elo >better than Fritz6. That's the biggest nonsense i ever heart. Fritz will never get up 100 points easily. Frans would have worked years for nothing otherwise and then suddenly within a few months he gets up 100? Only when the version before that first got down 100! >I will be surprised if fritz's version is less than 50 elo better than Fritz6 >because of Amir's post. Amir is commercial obviously. He needs to drum to the world. I doubt it's 50 rating points better as the previous version, unless the previous version was not his best version from the past times. >My guess for the first 3 places in order to win chessbase8 was: >1)Fritz >2)Shredder >3)Crafty Why do you place crafty that high, considering it has a real weak point? >I guess that all these programs are more than 50 elo better than fritz6 when in >the case of crafty the main reason is better hardware. Crafty played at even more superb hardware at the WMCC 1997. >I guess that Rebel,Tiger and Nimzo8 and maybe Junior are also better than >fritz6. I don't give a penny for the nimzo engine. I'd die to get my hands on a legal usage of the nimzo book however. It isn't tuned to play the opening itself other than a few single lines it plays. Nimzo is an aggressive engine that's real good tuned, but i'm everything but impressed. Especially knowing the comments of its maker upon how he sees computerchess : "nimzo improved only in playing strength when i REMOVED knowledge", we can assume that unless he has come back to that statement, that the engine will not have more knowledge. >Uri
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