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Subject: Re: I want 10 games match Shredder5 - Fritz7!

Author: Sune Larsson

Date: 05:28:47 09/01/00

Go up one level in this thread


On August 31, 2000 at 21:01:06, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On August 31, 2000 at 18:16:50, Chessfun wrote:
>
>>On August 31, 2000 at 12:59:27, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On August 29, 2000 at 16:26:54, Marcus Kaestner wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>sorry uri, but this is wrong.
>>>>>>have you been at the last wcc´s?
>>>>>>i haven´t seen you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>and as a member of the rebel team this year and shredder team last year, i know
>>>>>>what we have done and if i compare with chessbase then i know this is nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>marcus
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, but you said that the reason that you expected chessbase not to win is
>>>>>also the fact that the operators of other programs can force luck better.
>>>>
>>>>yes, you have read very well and kept it in mind.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Based on ssdf games of shredder4 I believe that Shredder was not the best
>>>>>software+hardware in the last WCCC but you predicted that it is going to win and
>>>>>you were right.
>>>>
>>>>after the wcc, stefan did not worked on the engine for nearly one year!
>>>>the wcc was in june, and the ssdf came out end of the year or later.
>>>>but meanwhile the others have done very much!
>>>>so it was the best in june, but not the best in autumn.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I tend to agree that Shredder 4 (Paderborn version) was probably the best
>>>program at that time. This is based on the data of the SSDF, which is the most
>>>reliable source we have.
>>>
>>>Tiger 11.9 (Paderborn version) was certainly 30 to 50 elo points weaker than
>>>Shredder 4.
>>>
>>>However, Tiger dramatically improved in the next 3 months after Paderborn. As a
>>>Result, Tiger 12.0 and Shredder 4 were very close, as the (hidden) data of the
>>>SSDF says.
>>>
>>>I don't know how Shredder 4.22 (London version) and Tiger 12.9 (London version)
>>>compare, but there is one thing I'm sure about: the next released version of
>>>Tiger (engine version 13.0, product name probably Rebel-Tiger II) will be
>>>clearly improved over the London version.
>>>
>>>Which says nothing about the relative strength of Rebel-Tiger II and Shredder 5,
>>>that's true.
>>>
>>>I just want to point out that there is time before the commercial releases of
>>>all the major products, and people should not believe that the engines are
>>>frozen by now.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>Christophe,
>>          Not that I am familiar with Tiger but I read here about
>>some of it's problems were the book was'nt made for Tiger.
>>
>>Will there be book improvements in the new version?
>
>
>
>Yes, Jeroen is still working on it.
>
>
>
>
>> and why did'nt
>>Tiger run with it's standard book in the WMCC.
>
>
>
>Tiger used the new book from Jeroen, which is going to be improved.

 Sorry about my ignorance, but this Jeroen - is it van Dorp or Noomen?
 Could have some importance for a possible purchase. At least I know
 that the first mentioned Jeroen, has proven a high level of playingstrength
 by finishing second in a very strong tournament on the net. :-)

 Thanks (for a good program)




>
>The problem with the book of Tiger in the WMCCC2000 is mainly that I had not
>provided the right tools to allow the operator to modify the book during the
>tournament. There were several "preference" books prepared by Jeroen, which were
>supposed to guide the program into positions that favour it. Unfortunately after
>the game against Shredder and the opening choice accident that happened in this
>game, it turned out that it was possible to have the problem again with the
>other preference books as well.
>
>Ed informed me just after the game and asked me and Jeroen to provide what was
>needed to change the books. That's what we did, but Ed had no Internet access in
>London and he has not been able to download the tools.
>
>So Marcus and Ed, when faced with the problem of the opening choice for Tiger,
>had a serious handicap and had to find tricky solutions without the opening book
>tools.
>
>Against some opponents they have been able to use Jeroen's preparations, but
>against others (Nimzo for example) they had to invent an incredibly tricky
>solution.
>
>My fault. I fear I do not have enough experience with these events and book
>preparation in general.
>
>
>
>    Christophe
>
>
>
>
>>I did'nt comment in any of the threads on WMCC as it seemed to me
>>pretty pointless as everything about winning one tournament is known.
>>Any of the top could win next time, these programs will not be the released
>>versions, etc, etc. That isn't from me trying to take anything away
>>from Shredder, who I had picked myself to finish 2nd to Tiger in the
>>CSS swepestakes. I was just curious about this book question.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>The only logical reason for it is the fact that you knew that it does better
>>>>>opening preperation.
>>>>>
>>>>>Operators can force luck only by better choice of the opening.
>>>>
>>>>yes, as i did with tiger against nimzo.
>>>>
>>>>but the team is reasonable for the dangerous and safe book.
>>>>
>>>>there is a difference in preparation the book
>>>>and forcing luck in the games.
>>>>the influence of the operator can be very high. even with a tricky time setting.
>>>>
>>>>marcus



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