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Subject: Re: Q: Fail High percentage

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 21:15:43 12/08/00

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On December 08, 2000 at 23:13:13, Landon Rabern wrote:

>On December 08, 2000 at 22:22:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On December 08, 2000 at 20:41:40, Landon Rabern wrote:
>>
>>>On December 08, 2000 at 16:16:01, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 13:21:21, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 13:06:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 08, 2000 at 12:56:09, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I looking for a measurement for move generation performance.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do you think FH/CountNodes, where FH is number of times the first generated move
>>>>>>>was a Fail High, is a good measurement?
>>>>>>>Do you have some other?
>>>>>>>What's your figures?
>>>>>>>I get some 50% and I have a feeling it's to low.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>//Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>The critical statistic I measure in crafty is this:  "For any position where
>>>>>>I 'fail high' (return a score >= beta) what percentage of the time does it
>>>>>>happen on the _first_ move?"  I generally average 92%.  Anything over 90% is
>>>>>>reasonable.  Anything less means move ordering needs work.
>>>>>
>>>>>OK, it seems logical. I have in princple 3 types of FH:
>>>>>  1) Hash table (without moving)
>>>>>  2) Null Move
>>>>>  3) Ordinary moves (including the hash table move)
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you include all these cases?
>>>>>With only the third case counted I'm well over 90%
>>>>>
>>>>>//Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Only 1 and 3.  2 is done at a different place in the search and doesn't
>>>>really count in "move ordering".
>>>>
>>>>Actually, the way you wrote it, only 3 counts.  for 1) you are not searching
>>>>a move, so that can't be counted.  2) doesn't count either...
>>>
>>>I am getting about 80% on this, is this real bad?  I am not doing internal
>>>interative deepening, do you think this will help a lot, or do you think there
>>>is something else wrong.
>>>
>>>I try moves in this order:
>>>
>>>hash/pv
>>>all captures sorted MVV/LVA
>>>two killers
>>>3 history scan moves
>>>the rest
>>>
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Landon W. Rabern
>>
>>
>>Your MVV/LVA ordering is probably the culprit.  Because you are trying moves
>>like QxP, even though the pawn is defended... and you try those _before_ you
>>try the move that will ultimately fail high (a killer or history move).
>>
>>I would still expect it to be higher than 80%... but that might be about right
>>with MVV/LVA.  You get some of that back in terms of faster ordering, and you
>>get some back because the bad captures get cut off quickly by null-move
>>searches... but it could be better...
>
>Ok, I switched to using my SEE to order the moves, but did not do the bad
>captures last yet(no time yet), just did them all at once, but ordered with SEE.
> Now I get about 86%-89%.  Do you think I should be able to get over 90% by
>doing bad captures last?
>
>Regards,
>
>Landon W. Rabern


Very possibly...



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