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Subject: Re: Using just Upperbounds and Lowerbounds

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 15:33:28 02/03/01

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On February 03, 2001 at 05:53:20, Tony Werten wrote:

>On February 02, 2001 at 21:33:10, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 02, 2001 at 14:42:23, Alvaro Jose Povoa Cardoso wrote:
>>
>>>On February 01, 2001 at 18:37:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 01, 2001 at 16:27:29, Tony Werten wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 01, 2001 at 14:19:25, Alvaro Jose Povoa Cardoso wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Does any one tried to use just Upperbounds and Lowerbounds in hashing, ignoring
>>>>>>ExactScore entries?
>>>>>>My question has to do with the fact that if we use ExactScores we don´t get long
>>>>>>PVs to feed in the next iteration, even if we extend PVs from hash.
>>>>>>My testing shows that if we do not use ExactScore entries in the hash table, we
>>>>>>end up with very long PVs that can be fed into the next iteration in order to
>>>>>>aproximate the minimal tree. After all, ExactScores are rare compared to
>>>>>>Upperbounds and Lowerbounds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Can someone comment on this?
>>>>>
>>>>>One of us is missing something. The PV is always exact. If you don't store
>>>>>exact, you don't have a pv. I don't know what you get from the hashtable, but it
>>>>>isn't a PV.
>>>>>
>>>>>I take my PV from hashtable and I (almost) always get a long pv, at least as
>>>>>long as the search depth.
>>>>>
>>>>>Tony
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thank you
>>>>>>Alvaro Cardoso
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>He is talking (I think) about a PV that is cut short when you get an EXACT
>>>>hash hit.  IE in crafty, where a PV ends with <HT> which sometimes happens
>>>>at ply=2/3/4 and results in a very short PV.  I use internal iterative deepening
>>>>to help search around this the next iteration, however..
>>>
>>>
>>>That is exactly what I was talking about. When I get an EXACT hash hit the PV is
>>>cut short, and extending it from the hash table doesn't help much, I just get
>>>1-3 moves from the hash, perhaps there is something wrong with my program.
>>>Also, and in response to Dr. Robert Hyatt, I can´t execute the assignment
>>>because my program is the portuguese version of checkers. I hope you don't mind
>>>if I ask questions not related to the game of chess.
>>>
>>>Thank you
>>>Alvaro Cardoso
>>
>>That is a perfectly normal problem.  My PV is often shorter than it should
>>be due to an EXACT hash hit.  Nothing you can do about it, not that there
>>is anything wrong with it.
>
>I still don't get how you can have a short pv if you have a exact hashhit.
>
>Maybe run a test where you add in your pv, the bounds it got. My guess is you're
>last move is a BELOW_ALFA hit. ( That was a problem I had before )
>It was caused because I raised alfa after nullmove, sometimes making it the best
>score and having a bogus best_move which couldn't be found in hashtable.
>
>cheers,
>
>Tony

It happens all the time.  You get an EXACT hash hit while searching the PV,
so you stop and use that score instantly.  How can you fill in the _rest_ of
the PV moves since you didn't search any deeper.  I see this so often that I
eventually added the <HT> indicator to the PV to let everyone know it really
should be longer but was cut short by an EXACT hash hit.

If you never get a short PV, you have something broken somewhere..



>
>>
>>And you can _still_ turn in your assignment on time.  Checkers is perfectly fine
>>to test your hypothesis. :)



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