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Subject: Re: A Bigger Chess Game - Would It Help Humans Or Computers?

Author: Ricardo Gibert

Date: 10:26:57 02/22/01

Go up one level in this thread


On February 22, 2001 at 12:51:34, Graham Laight wrote:

>Here's the current chess game:
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|BR|BN|BB|BQ|BK|BB|BN|BR|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|WR|WN|WB|WQ|WK|WB|WN|WR|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>
>Now, suppose we make the game bigger, by doubling the pieces, as follows:
>
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|BR|BR|BN|BN|BB|BB|BQ|BQ|BK|BB|BB|BN|BN|BR|BR|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>|BR|BR|BN|BN|BB|BB|BQ|BQ|BK|BB|BB|BN|BN|BR|BR|
> -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
>
>As you can see, I've also increased the size of the board to 15x15. There's
>nothing special about the way I've increased the size - it's just an example.

The value of the long range pieces (Q, B & R) would increase dramatically with
respect to the short range ones (K, N & P).

Positional play will be less important, because the pawns cannot control a
significant amount of territory. For instance, I don't see how "a space
advantage" would play much of a role.

>
>The question is - who would this help more?
>
>For the computers, this would be devastating. It would massively increase the
>number of possible move choices at every ply for the entire game. It would kill
>their ability to look a long way ahead.
>
>On the other hand, it would quickly increase the tactical possibilites, and make

The tactical opportunities would increase, but the branching factor would kill
the computers. Except for nabbing hanging material I would expect they would be
weak tactically.

>it much more difficult for humans to avoid making short term errors.
>
>My judgement is that chess modified this way would lower the playing standards
>of the computers far more dramatically than it would the humans, and thus allow
>us to start beating them easily again.
>
>-g

I would tend to agree, but perhaps your example contains unforeseen surprises.



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