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Subject: Re: More doubts with gandalf

Author: Roland Pfister

Date: 02:46:39 02/27/01

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On February 26, 2001 at 12:21:00, Peter Berger wrote:

>
...
>It seems to be a very common belief that with 32men EGTBs chess is solved ; I
>haven't been able to understand this point of view so far .
>
>Availlable data and also intuition suggest that chess is a draw .
>
>It might be the case that every white first move draws ( at least that's my
>belief ) .
>
>I even believe that every black answer to every move of White leads to a draw .
>
>Now let's take this "perfect" program ( " ... absolute knowledge, no search and
>no chess rule of thumb knowledge of the type discussed ..." )and create a little
>challenge :
>
>This program , let's call it "Perfect" has to play against a group of strong
>Super GM players ( like in a typical Linares tournament ) .
>
>It randomly chooses one of the "perfect" moves availlable . How will it perform
>? It won't lose a single game : that's obvious . But how many games will it win
>? I suspect it will draw quite a few ; the move winning a piece but by some
>miracle allowing the opponent to escape will have the same probability than the
>move blundering a piece and letting "Perfect" escape in the last moment .
>
>As control group for "Perfect" I choose Kasparov who has to play against the
>same gang of masters ; I think it is very likely that he will perfom better and
>gain more points than "Perfect" that suddenly won't look that perfect anymore .
>

IIRC this already happened in the Nine Men Morris (Mühle) Computer Championship.
the "perfect" program (from ETH Zürich) played too many draws against weaker
opponents.

>In fact this effect can be clearly observed today already IMHO ; take a critical
>drawn tablebase position and play it on the weaker side against a typical
>chessprogram that uses tablebases ; you will often have a much easier time
>getting a draw ( as for example in KRP-KR it will simply sack the pawn ( a
>"perfect" move )) compaired to playing against it with tablebases disabled . I
>have seen _many_ games where the tablebase program let the opponent escape in a
>much easier draw .
>
>So without something like a "swindle" mode I am not sure that it is beneficial
>to even use the TBs if you are on the stronger side in a drawn tablebase
>position .
>
>pete

yes, it is necessary to distinguish between draws and draws. Everyone with
a tablebase program has seen such embarrasing situations and hopefully
has drawn the conclusions.

Roland



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