Author: Michael P. Nance Sr.
Date: 15:34:35 03/17/01
Go up one level in this thread
On March 17, 2001 at 14:53:05, Uri Blass wrote: >On March 17, 2001 at 14:38:32, Michael P. Nance Sr. wrote: > >>On March 17, 2001 at 13:49:47, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On March 17, 2001 at 13:43:30, jonas cohonas wrote: >>> >>>>On March 17, 2001 at 13:04:29, Antonio Senatore wrote: >>>> >>>>>It seems incredible that a top chess program like Junior 6 (without the KPPKB >>>>>tablebase but with the KBK and the KBKP tables) CAN'T SEE MATE IN ONE in the >>>>>next position: >>>>> >>>>>7k/4pK1p/7B/8/8/8/8/8 w - - >>>>> >>>>>Junior neither can see mate in one in the following positions (without KNNKP >>>>>tablebase): >>>>> >>>>>8/8/8/8/6N1/5NK1/7p/7k w - - >>>>> >>>>>8/8/8/8/8/6NK/3N1p2/6k1 w - - >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>In the next position, he can't see mate in two: >>>>> >>>>>7k/3N4/6KN/8/8/8/7p/8 w - - >>>>> >>>>>Let's hope in the next update this problem is resolved. >>>>> >>>>>Regards. >>>>> >>>>>Antonio >>>> >>>>New position >>>>7k/4pK1p/7B/8/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Junior 6.0: >>>> >>>>1.Bf8 e5 >>>> = (-0.07) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>>1.Bg7# >>>> +- (#1) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>>1.Bg7# >>>> +- (#1) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>> >>>>(, MyTown 18.03.2001) >>>> >>>>New position >>>>8/8/8/8/6N1/5NK1/7p/7k w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Junior 6.0: >>>> >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 6 00:00:00, tb=1 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00, tb=3 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 12 00:00:00, tb=5 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 15 00:00:00, tb=7 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 18 00:00:00, tb=9 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 21 00:00:00, tb=11 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 24 00:00:00 1kN, tb=13 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 27 00:00:00 1kN, tb=15 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 30 00:00:00 1kN, tb=17 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 33 00:00:00 1kN, tb=19 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 36 00:00:00 2kN, tb=21 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 39 00:00:00 2kN, tb=23 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 42 00:00:00 2kN, tb=25 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 45 00:00:00 3kN, tb=27 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 48 00:00:00 3kN, tb=29 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 51 00:00:00 3kN, tb=31 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 54 00:00:00 4kN, tb=33 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 57 00:00:00 4kN, tb=35 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 60 00:00:00 5kN, tb=37 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 63 00:00:00 5kN, tb=39 >>>>1.Ngxh2 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 63 00:00:00 5kN, tb=40 >>>> >>>>(, MyTown 18.03.2001) >>>> >>>>New position >>>>8/8/8/8/8/6NK/3N1p2/6k1 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Junior 6.0: >>>> >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 6 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00, tb=5 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 12 00:00:00, tb=18 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 15 00:00:00 1kN, tb=32 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 18 00:00:00 1kN, tb=46 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 21 00:00:00 2kN, tb=60 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 24 00:00:00 2kN, tb=74 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 27 00:00:00 3kN, tb=88 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 30 00:00:00 3kN, tb=102 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 33 00:00:00 4kN, tb=116 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 36 00:00:00 4kN, tb=130 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 39 00:00:00 5kN, tb=144 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 42 00:00:00 5kN, tb=158 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 45 00:00:00 6kN, tb=172 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 48 00:00:00 7kN, tb=186 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 51 00:00:00 7kN, tb=200 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 54 00:00:00 8kN, tb=214 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 57 00:00:00 9kN, tb=228 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 60 00:00:00 9kN, tb=242 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 63 00:00:00 10kN, tb=256 >>>>1.Nh1 >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 63 00:00:00 10kN, tb=256 >>>> >>>>(, MyTown 18.03.2001) >>>> >>>>New position >>>>7k/3N4/6KN/8/8/8/7p/8 w - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Analysis by Junior 6.0: >>>> >>>>1.Ne5 h1Q >>>> ³ (-0.70) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 3 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 6 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 9 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 12 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 15 00:00:00 >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 18 00:00:00 1kN >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 21 00:00:00 1kN >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 24 00:00:00 2kN >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 27 00:00:00 3kN >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 30 00:00:00 3kN >>>>1.Nf7+ >>>> = (0.00) Depth: 33 00:00:03 5221kN, tb=8986 >>>> >>>>(, MyTown 18.03.2001) >>>> >>>>You are right that is unacceptable from a top program, it seems in general that >>>>the chessbase products have a problem reading tb's or maby the tb's are not as >>>>perfect as one would think. >>> >>>The tablebases are perfect. >>>Junior simply have some knoweldge that is wrong in this case. >>> >>>I suggest that you click on engine parameters and tell Junior to forget it's >>>knowledge about insufficient material(I know that this is a parameter for >>>Junior5 and I guess that it is also a parameter for Junior6). >>> >>>Uri >>On the clearing the Engine parameters,this does what?Please explain what this >>does. > >I do not know exactly about Junior6 but I know that Junior5 has insufficient >material parameter and you have v near it if you use the default parameters. > >If you use the default parameters then Junior simply know that KB vs something >is at most a draw for the KB and if it has a draw evaluation for one move it >simply does not search other moves because it knows that the evaluation cannot >be better. > >If you have not v near this parameter Junior does not know that KB cannot win >and it will search other move even if the evaluation is a draw for the first >move. > > > >While on the same point,what would clearing the Hashtables do?Would it make >>the Program stronger in its next search ?Or would it slow it down?Please clear >>this up. Regards,Mike > >I guess that clearing the hash tables will tell the program to forget results of >previous searches. > >It means that the program may need time again to see things that it already saw >in the previous search. > >Uri thanks ,that what i thought,just wanted an expert opinion. mike
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