Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 10:35:30 03/26/01
Hello,
DIEP is last weeks playing at a few auto232 players and
i was a bit dissappointed in how Shredder5 judges games.
In Shredder saved PGN file i didn't see the same score which
i had in the internal diep.log file. First game DIEP was
at +5.5 when a new game was started.
This is what shredder saved in its log file:
[Event "200 Minuten/Partie"]
[Site "auto232 match"]
[Date "2001.03.09"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Shredder 5"]
[Black "diep 2"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
1. e4 {Buch 0s} (1. d4 {Buch 3s} d5 {2s} 2. c4 {Buch 0s} c6
{2s (dxc4)} 3. Nf3 {Buch 0s} Nf6 {2s} 4. cxd5 {Buch 0s}
cxd5 {2s} 5. Bf4 {Buch 0s} Nc6 {2s} 6. Nc3 {Buch 0s} a6
{2s} 7. Ne5 {Buch 0s} e6 {2s (Db6)} 8. e3 {Buch 0s} Nxe5
{2s} 9. dxe5 {+0.29/14 3:56m} Nd7 {10:02m} 10. Be2
{+0.17/14 0s} b5 {5:56m} 11. e4 {+0.06/13 3:21m} b4 {5:44m}
12. Nb1 {+0.02/14 20s} dxe4 {5:32m (Lb7)} 13. Nd2 {-0.04/14
6:03m} Nc5 {5:15m (Lb7)} 14. O-O {-0.13/13 3:59m} Be7
{2:28m} 15. Qc2 {-0.13/13 1:24m} Bb7 {5:04m} 16. Nc4
{-0.18/13 1s} Rc8 {3:52m (Sd3)} 17. Rfd1 {-0.26/12 4:24m}
Bd5 {2s} 18. Rac1 {-0.43/13 5:27m} O-O {3:49m} 19. b3
{-0.42/14 4:01m} Nd7 {3:43m (Tc6)} 20. Qd2 {-0.34/12 1:20m}
a5 {2:14m (h6)} 21. Qe3 {-0.27/13 3:34m} Rc6 {3:33m (h6)}
22. Qg3 {-0.13/14 3:56m} Bh4 {6:55m (Kh8)} 23. Qg4
{-0.09/13 4:28m} Kh8 {2s} 24. Nd6 {0.00/12 4:51m} Rc3 {2s
(Txc1)} 25. Bb5 {+0.34/11 2:24m} g5 {6:10m} 26. Bxd7
{+0.03/13 6:39m} gxf4 {2s} 27. Be8 {0.00/12 4:34m} f5 {2s}
28. exf6 {0.00/13 3:45m} Qxf6 {2:12m} 29. Nf7+ {0.00/13
44s} Rxf7 {2:15m} 30. Bxf7 {0.00/14 3:32m} Bxf2+ {2s}
31. Kxf2 {0.00/11 16s} Qxf7 {2:40m} 32. Rxc3 {0.00/12
1:04m} bxc3 {1:47m} 33. Qg5 {+0.01/12 1:07m} Qc7 {1:41m}
34. Qf6+ {+0.01/12 2:42m} Kg8 {2:48m} 35. Rc1 {0.00/12 23s}
c2 {2:17m} 36. Kf1 {0.00/12 25s} f3 {2:40m} 37. g3
{-0.01/12 19s} Qc5 {2:35m} 38. Qg5+ {-0.99/13 5:58m} Kf7
{2s}) 1... c5 {1s (e5)} 2. Nf3 {Buch 0s} d6 {1s} 3. Nc3
{Buch 0s} Nf6 {1s (e5)} 4. d4 {Buch 0s} cxd4 {7s} 5. Nxd4
{Buch 0s} a6 {1s} 6. Bg5 {Buch 0s} 1/2-1/2
So Shredder does as if the game was played in a side line.
The moves as played in shredders 'mainline' ARE NOT IN MY LOGFILE
AS ACTUALLY PLAYED. Every move diep gets it is logging.
Now shredder is tactical quite a bit weaker as DIEP as i had
way higher scores already when shredder was at 0.00, but i
am PRETTY sure that shredder failed low after 38..Kf7.
Actually diep was at +5.5 for Kf7. Then shredder saved it as a
side line and did as if it was an 'aborted game'. Of course
99% of the dudes playing on an autoplayer won't notice this
and count this as 1/2-1/2.
BUT IT WAS A WIN FOR DIEP!
Note the auto232 player wasn't disturbed or whatever. The next
so many games were played without a single problem.
Now if you think that this happened by accident. NO WAY.
Stefan is a profi. This doesn't happen by accident. He doesn't
spend time to make PGN files show side lines without reason.
See what happened a week later. Somewhere
in the middle of the auto232.pgn file from shredder:
[Event "180 Minuten/Partie"]
[Site "auto232 match"]
[Date "2001.03.18"]
[Round "1"]
[White "diep2"]
[Black "Shredder 5"]
[Result "0-1"]
1. e4 {Buch 0s} (1. e4 {Buch 1:26m}) (1. d4 {4s} d5 {Buch
0s} 2. c4 {2s (Sf3)} e6 {Buch 0s} 3. Nf3 {2s (Sc3)} a6
{Buch 0s} 4. cxd5 {10:03m} exd5 {Buch 0s} 5. Nc3 {5:53m}
Be7 {Buch 0s} 6. Bf4 {5:45m} Nf6 {-0.23/12 1:16m} 7. e3
{6:07m} Nh5 {-0.28/13 1s} 8. Be5 {5:20m} Nc6 {-0.37/12 48s}
9. Nd2 {5:08m (Le2)} Nf6 {-0.25/13 4:30m} 10. Bxf6 {24s}
Bxf6 {-0.25/14 7:16m} 11. Qb3 {2s (Ld3)} Ne7 {0.00/13
4:13m} 12. Bd3 {2s} O-O {+0.01/12 3:33m} 13. O-O {2:07m
(Tc1)} Qd6 {0.00/12 3:56m} 14. Rac1 {3:54m} c6 {+0.03/12
3s} 15. Na4 {3:48m} Rb8 {+0.45/13 35s} 16. Qc2 {3:04m} Ng6
{+0.43/12 1:04m} 17. Qc5 {3:37m (a3)} Be7 {+0.45/12 3:52m}
18. a3 {3:31m (Dxd6)} Qf6 {+0.62/12 3:57m} 19. Qc2 {3:25m
(Da7)} Nh4 {+0.84/11 2:38m} 20. Rfe1 {38s} Qg5 {+0.69/12
4:20m} 21. g3 {2s} Bf5 {+0.51/11 58s} 22. Nc5 {2:18m} Bxc5
{+0.52/12 1:19m} 23. Bxf5 {3:15m (dxc5)} Nxf5 {+0.58/13
2:02m} 24. Qxc5 {1:04m (dxc5)} Rfe8 {+0.80/13 3:10m} 25. b4
{2s (Dc2)} Qh6 {+0.82/12 3:23m} 26. Nc4 {4:27m (a4)} Qe6
{+0.85/12 3:33m} 27. Nd2 {3:00m (Se5)} Nd6 {+0.86/13 1:30m}
28. Kg2 {1:23m (a4)} Qh6 {+0.98/13 2:52m} 29. a4 {2:53m
(Dc2)} Re6 {+0.95/13 2:34m} 30. a5 {2:48m (Dc2)} Rbe8
{+1.19/13 2:36m} 31. Qc2 {5s} Rf6 {+1.18/13 3:33m} 32. h3
{1s} Qh5 {+1.10/12 3:39m} 33. Qd1 {2s} Qf5 {+1.08/13 1:43m}
34. Qe2 {58s (Df3)} Nb5 {+1.02/13 3:52m} 35. Qf3 {2:42m
(Sb3)} Qd7 {+1.07/13 2:42m} 36. Qd1 {2:38m (Dg4)} Qe7
{+1.20/13 2:33m} 37. Qb3 {2:34m} h6 {+1.16/13 1s} 38. Ra1
{2:29m (Tb1)} Nd6 {+1.25/13 1:56m} 39. Qc2 {2:25m (Dd1)}
Re6 {+1.06/13 2:50m} 40. Rec1 {2:21m (Sb3)} Qf6 {+1.24/12
1:27m} 41. Re1 {3:27m (Tab1)} R6e7 {+1.25/12 1:44m}
42. Rac1 {2:11m (Sf3)} Qe6 {+1.15/12 2:01m} 43. Nb3 {2:08m
(Dd3)} Nf5 {+1.14/13 4:44m} 44. Qd1 {3:02m} Qd6 {+1.32/13
6s} 45. Qd2 {1:50m} Qg6 {+1.18/13 9s} 46. Kf1 {1:44m (Kh2)}
Re6 {+1.40/11 1:35m} 47. Nc5 {1:53m} Rf6 {+1.46/13 1:38m}
48. g4 {9s} Ng3+ {+1.43/11 18s} 49. Kg1 {1:29m} Ne4
{+1.57/13 0s} 50. Nxe4 {1:45m} Qxe4 {+1.80/13 22s} 51. Kh2
{3:17m} h5 {+1.61/14 4s} 52. Rg1 {1:39m} Rf3 {+1.78/13 46s}
53. Rg3 {48s} Rxg3 {+1.98/12 47s} 54. Kxg3 {45s} Qg6
{+1.80/12 31s} 55. f3 {1:01m (Kf3)} f5 {+1.81/13 2:05m}
56. Rg1 {1:33m} fxg4 {+1.73/13 26s} 57. hxg4 {1:01m (Kf2)}
hxg4 {+1.42/13 1:48m} 58. Kf2 {1:28m} Rf8 {+1.37/14 1:26m}
59. f4 {1:20m (De2)} Rf5 {+1.89/13 2:42m} 60. Qe2 {2s} Rh5
{+2.04/12 35s} 61. Qxg4 {46s} Rh2+ {+1.35/14 1:19m} 62. Kg3
{2s} Qc2 {+1.35/14 2:50m} 63. Qf3 {2s} Rh6 {+1.46/13 2:40m}
64. Rg2 {1s} Qb1 {+1.58/13 1:22m} 65. Qe2 {2s} Qxb4
{+1.60/14 1:32m} 66. Qg4 {27s} Qe1+ {+1.78/13 52s} 67. Kf3
{27s} Qf1+ {+1.57/13 2:17m} 68. Kg3 {1:21m} Kh7 {+1.57/13
0s} 69. Qg5 {1:19m} Qe1+ {+1.82/12 1:12m} 70. Kf3 {2s} Rh3+
{+1.82/12 2:16m} 71. Rg3 {2s} Qd1+ {+1.79/12 1:15m} 72. Kg2
{2s (Kf2)} Qh1+ {+1.83/14 1:16m} 73. Kf2 {1s} Rh2+
{+1.83/15 1:16m} 74. Rg2 {1s} Rxg2+ {+2.36/16 1:59m}
75. Qxg2 {1:17m} Qxg2+ {+2.64/17 1s} 76. Kxg2 {1:10m} Kg6
{+2.80/18 31s} 77. Kg3 {39s} Kf5 {+3.53/17 10s} 78. Kf3
{59s} g6 {+3.28/17 11s} 79. Kf2 {57s} Ke6 {+3.10/17 1:09m}
80. Kg3 {1:09m (Kf3)} Kd7 {+3.42/17 1:08m} 81. Kf3 {2s
(Kf2)} Kd6 {+3.43/17 53s} 82. e4 {11s (Ke2)} dxe4+
{+4.36/16 37s} 83. Kxe4 {1:06m} Ke6 {+4.57/18 9s} 84. Ke3
{53s (Kd3)} Kd5 {+6.88/19 1:03m} 85. Kd3 {2s} c5 {+9.28/19
1:28m} 86. dxc5 {1:20m (Kc3)} Kxc5 {+9.62/19 56s} 87. Ke4
{2s (Kc3)} b6 {+M24/17 41s} 88. axb6 {1:19m} Kxb6 {+M23/20
0s} 89. Ke5 {56s} a5 {+M20/22 0s} 90. Kd5 {1:01m} Kc7
{+M19/21 8s} 91. Kc5 {56s} Kd7 {+M18/24 0s} 92. Kb5 {59s
(Kd5)} Ke6 {+M16/23 47s} 93. Kxa5 {7s} Kf5 {+M15/4 0s}
94. Kb4 {50s (Ka4)} Kxf4 {+M14/4 0s} 95. Kb3 {48s} Ke3
{+M13/4 0s} 96. Kc2 {1:04m} g5 {+M12/4 0s} 97. Kb3 {46s
(Kb2)} g4 {+M11/4 0s} 98. Ka4 {44s (Ka3)} g3 {+M10/4 0s}
99. Kb3 {43s (Ka3)} g2 {+M9/4 0s} 100. Ka4 {42s} g1=Q
{+M8/4 0s} 101. Kb5 {41s} Qg5+ {+M7/4 0s} 102. Kb6 {42s
(Ka6)} Qd8+ {+M6/4 0s} 103. Kc5 {42s (Kb7)} Kd3 {+M5/4 0s}
104. Kb5 {37s (Kc6)} Qd6 {+M4/4 1s} 105. Ka4 {35s} Qb6
{+M3/4 0s} 106. Ka3 {2s} Kc3 {+M2/4 0s} 107. Ka4 {2s (Ka2)}
Qb4# {+M1/1 0s}) 1... g6 {1s (e5)} 2. Nf3 {Buch 0s} Bg7 {1s
(d6)} 3. c4 {Buch 0s} d6 {10s} 4. d4 {Buch 0s} Nc6 {1s
(Lg4)} 5. Be2 {Buch 0s} Nf6 {17s (Lg4)} 6. d5 {+0.53/10
11s} Nb8 {15s} 7. Nc3 {+0.50/10 0s} O-O {9s} 8. O-O {Buch
0s} e5 {11s (e6)} 9. Bg5 {Buch 0s} h6 {11s} 10. Bh4 {Buch
0s} g5 {17s (a5)} 11. Bg3 {+0.55/9 7s} Nh5 {7s (Sa6)}
12. Qd3 {+0.40/9 19s} Na6 {18s} 13. Qe3 {+0.30/9 1s} Nf4
{10s (f5)} 14. h4 {+0.43/8 20s} g4 {12s (Sxe2+)} 15. Nd2
{+0.33/10 32s} Nxe2+ {10s} 16. Qxe2 {+0.30/11 6s} f5 {6s
(Ld7)} 17. exf5 {+0.52/10 13s} Bxf5 {1s} 18. Nde4 {+0.60/10
10s} 0-1
So here +0.60 is arbitrated as a win for shredder. Incredible.
Of course shredder won this game, but the previous game it
didn't say it lost it. It says it won it. It will never say it
lost it if the side line in between it is giving -0.60.
Bottom line is that despite a 'newgame' command from auto232 player
it saves some kind of side line and arbitrates it always
favouring itself.
It happens of course irregular, and we must say it: auto232 player
protocol is far from smart designed.
It dates back from the 80s when DOS was popular. It's amazing the
protocol survived so long.
Especially playing chessbase products gives big problems as they
always stop auto232 playing somewhere, usually when having a
fail low. Shredder is giving very little of troubles in this
respect, but what happened here i can't explain it at all
except that Shredder is way too optimistic about itself IMHO!
For sure something is wrong with the ARBITRATION code of Shredder.
Most likely NOTHING is wrong, but it is written to favour shredder.
Next post: the default settings
of the chessbase and tiger
interface for auto232 player.
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.