Author: Albert Silver
Date: 13:14:05 04/20/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 19, 2001 at 17:21:58, Uri Blass wrote:
>On April 19, 2001 at 15:55:07, Jason Williamson wrote:
>
>>On April 19, 2001 at 13:57:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On April 19, 2001 at 10:31:43, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 19, 2001 at 06:04:11, Graham Laight wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On April 18, 2001 at 11:08:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On April 18, 2001 at 06:55:31, Tanya Deborah wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On April 18, 2001 at 02:15:00, Wayne Lowrance wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 16:59:20, Bertil Eklund wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>First of all these are the CONDITIONS for the match vs Kramnik.
>>>>>>>>>Use of a SMP-macine with 8cpus. POINT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I was asked to recommend the STRONGEST programs for a qualifying tournament.
>>>>>>>>>The qualifyer should be used to pick the BEST program and not the "luckiest".
>>>>>>>>>Therefore it should be played in longer matches. Again and I repeat in order to
>>>>>>>>>minimize the randomness it shouldn't be played in a short tournament in a few
>>>>>>>>>rounds.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The above means that only a few programs can take part in the challenge.
>>>>>>>>>What is the strongest programs of today? In my opinion, if I pick the 5-6 best
>>>>>>>>>programs (one cpu), it can only be the following Deep-Fritz, Deep-Shredder,
>>>>>>>>>Deep-Junior, Fritz6 and Tiger/Gambit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Then I checked the CONDITIONS again, and what is left only the Deeps of Fritz,
>>>>>>>>>Shredder and Junior. Fritz6 was a bit old anyway, so I skipped it but I really
>>>>>>>>>was sorry that (after that I had seen that mr Theron wasn't planning any
>>>>>>>>>SMP-version in the near future) I couldn't recommend the program(s) that may be
>>>>>>>>>the strongest of all in a single-cpu event.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>No there wasn't any ifs included in the stated CONDITIONS.
>>>>>>>>>No Swiss-tournament in a few rounds against a bunch of GMs.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>IF noone else hasn't noticed it yet, nowadays the most used word in this Forum
>>>>>>>>>is IF.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have almost seen as many suggestions as there are members in this fora.
>>>>>>>>>Almost anyone seems to be absolutely sure what to do and how to do.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I only want to remind again that this is a commercial event. Meaning that there
>>>>>>>>>is a time-schedule. There are rules to be followed and contracts to be signed.
>>>>>>>>>I also find it quite logical that the organizer of the event want the strongest
>>>>>>>>>possible program to play against Kramnik. The cost of the event is a seven
>>>>>>>>>digit-number in USD.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>At last before everyone starts the shouting and shouting:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I accepted the offer as a consultant, "chess-computer expert" for what it is
>>>>>>>>>worth, because I really liked the idea of a match between the best program on a
>>>>>>>>>8cpu-machine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I haven't received a single cent for this, no the entry-fee wasn't supposed for
>>>>>>>>>mr Irazoqui or my pockets (mr Czub as usual). I was offered a trip to the event
>>>>>>>>>but if it can make someone happier I stay at home and prepare the computer for
>>>>>>>>>the next SSDF hardware-level. Hopefully mr Theron can have some kind of revenge
>>>>>>>>>if Tiger(s) tops the next list on the new hardware.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Bertil
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just curious, why did you not include Crafty. On 8 cpu's I would not like to bet
>>>>>>>>my money against it. Look at it's human record/experience.
>>>>>>>>Thanks
>>>>>>>>Wayne
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I agreed with Wayne! Why did you not include Crafty????
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Crafty will be a REAL POWER MONSTER on 8 cpu´s , and like Wayne said: IT HAVE A
>>>>>>>VERY SPECIAL HUMAN RECORD/EXPERIENCE. Crafty is a very dangerous challenger for
>>>>>>>this competition.
>>>>>>>Tanya.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If I were going to play this match, I would not even _start_ with 8 cpus.
>>>>>>Maybe 4x that or more. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Given that the rightful program (Shredder) is not now playing, I suggest you
>>>>>build the beast.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you've got the time, building it and demonstrating its efficacy at ICC might
>>>>>enable us to create sufficient pressure on the organisers to allow you to put it
>>>>>forward as a candidate.
>>>>>
>>>>>-g
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I wouldn't even think about it for several reasons:
>>>>
>>>>1. The match conditions are not simply bad, they are _stupid_.
>>>>
>>>>2. Shredder should be playing. It is the current WCCC and WMCCC titleholder.
>>>>
>>>>Holding a match to choose a challenger is an insult to SMK and Shredder. And
>>>>I'm not personally interesting in perpetuating that insult further. Just sit
>>>>back and watch to see who shows the "greed" and who shows the "class" in this
>>>>process. :)
>>>
>>>By this logic Deeper blue should not agree to play kasparov.
>>>Hsu could tell kasparov that Fritz is the right program to play because Fritz is
>>>the world champion.
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>The match between deep blue and Kasparov was not labeled the world championship
>>or between the world computer chess champion and the world chess champion.
>
>I do not consider the match between kramnik and the computer as the world
>championship.
That doesn't matter. It is being advertised as a match between World Champions.
I certainly don't blame Bertil or Enrique for this, but those are the facts.
That Kramnik is world champion is fine. But the opponent? What is the selection
process for this "computer world champion"? It has to be SMP and it must be
chosen by the experts. It matters not at all whether I agree or disagree with
their choices. My opinion is just as arbitrary as theirs. If it were BGN's match
between Kramnik and Deep Something, fine. But when you start labeling something
world champion it's not fine. If you want to say world champion there has to be
a process, and that process can't be like a beauty pageant with some judges
pointing to their favourites. That's BS, and when it's a matter of
title-holders, there is only one: Shredder. Get rid of this whole "world
champion" issue and I would say nothing.
Albert
>
>The performance of programs against humans is in the best case (Junior's
>case)sligtly more than 2700.
>
>A human with these achievement is going to have no right to play for the world
>championship so it is clear that no computer have the right to play for the
>title of world championship.
>
>I saw the match as a match between a computer and kramnik and did not think
>about it as world championship.
>
>Uri
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