Author: Uri Blass
Date: 21:23:30 04/20/01
Go up one level in this thread
On April 19, 2001 at 21:56:31, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On April 19, 2001 at 13:57:14, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On April 19, 2001 at 10:31:43, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On April 19, 2001 at 06:04:11, Graham Laight wrote: >>> >>>>On April 18, 2001 at 11:08:45, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>>> >>>>>On April 18, 2001 at 06:55:31, Tanya Deborah wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On April 18, 2001 at 02:15:00, Wayne Lowrance wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On April 17, 2001 at 16:59:20, Bertil Eklund wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>First of all these are the CONDITIONS for the match vs Kramnik. >>>>>>>>Use of a SMP-macine with 8cpus. POINT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I was asked to recommend the STRONGEST programs for a qualifying tournament. >>>>>>>>The qualifyer should be used to pick the BEST program and not the "luckiest". >>>>>>>>Therefore it should be played in longer matches. Again and I repeat in order to >>>>>>>>minimize the randomness it shouldn't be played in a short tournament in a few >>>>>>>>rounds. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>The above means that only a few programs can take part in the challenge. >>>>>>>>What is the strongest programs of today? In my opinion, if I pick the 5-6 best >>>>>>>>programs (one cpu), it can only be the following Deep-Fritz, Deep-Shredder, >>>>>>>>Deep-Junior, Fritz6 and Tiger/Gambit. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Then I checked the CONDITIONS again, and what is left only the Deeps of Fritz, >>>>>>>>Shredder and Junior. Fritz6 was a bit old anyway, so I skipped it but I really >>>>>>>>was sorry that (after that I had seen that mr Theron wasn't planning any >>>>>>>>SMP-version in the near future) I couldn't recommend the program(s) that may be >>>>>>>>the strongest of all in a single-cpu event. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>No there wasn't any ifs included in the stated CONDITIONS. >>>>>>>>No Swiss-tournament in a few rounds against a bunch of GMs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>IF noone else hasn't noticed it yet, nowadays the most used word in this Forum >>>>>>>>is IF. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I have almost seen as many suggestions as there are members in this fora. >>>>>>>>Almost anyone seems to be absolutely sure what to do and how to do. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I only want to remind again that this is a commercial event. Meaning that there >>>>>>>>is a time-schedule. There are rules to be followed and contracts to be signed. >>>>>>>>I also find it quite logical that the organizer of the event want the strongest >>>>>>>>possible program to play against Kramnik. The cost of the event is a seven >>>>>>>>digit-number in USD. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>At last before everyone starts the shouting and shouting: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I accepted the offer as a consultant, "chess-computer expert" for what it is >>>>>>>>worth, because I really liked the idea of a match between the best program on a >>>>>>>>8cpu-machine. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>I haven't received a single cent for this, no the entry-fee wasn't supposed for >>>>>>>>mr Irazoqui or my pockets (mr Czub as usual). I was offered a trip to the event >>>>>>>>but if it can make someone happier I stay at home and prepare the computer for >>>>>>>>the next SSDF hardware-level. Hopefully mr Theron can have some kind of revenge >>>>>>>>if Tiger(s) tops the next list on the new hardware. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Bertil >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Just curious, why did you not include Crafty. On 8 cpu's I would not like to bet >>>>>>>my money against it. Look at it's human record/experience. >>>>>>>Thanks >>>>>>>Wayne >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>I agreed with Wayne! Why did you not include Crafty???? >>>>>> >>>>>>Crafty will be a REAL POWER MONSTER on 8 cpu´s , and like Wayne said: IT HAVE A >>>>>>VERY SPECIAL HUMAN RECORD/EXPERIENCE. Crafty is a very dangerous challenger for >>>>>>this competition. >>>>>>Tanya. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>If I were going to play this match, I would not even _start_ with 8 cpus. >>>>>Maybe 4x that or more. :) >>>> >>>>Given that the rightful program (Shredder) is not now playing, I suggest you >>>>build the beast. >>>> >>>>If you've got the time, building it and demonstrating its efficacy at ICC might >>>>enable us to create sufficient pressure on the organisers to allow you to put it >>>>forward as a candidate. >>>> >>>>-g >>> >>> >>>I wouldn't even think about it for several reasons: >>> >>>1. The match conditions are not simply bad, they are _stupid_. >>> >>>2. Shredder should be playing. It is the current WCCC and WMCCC titleholder. >>> >>>Holding a match to choose a challenger is an insult to SMK and Shredder. And >>>I'm not personally interesting in perpetuating that insult further. Just sit >>>back and watch to see who shows the "greed" and who shows the "class" in this >>>process. :) >> >>By this logic Deeper blue should not agree to play kasparov. >>Hsu could tell kasparov that Fritz is the right program to play because Fritz is >>the world champion. >> >>Uri > > >That isn't the same logic at all. DB is beyond all PCs. Anyone with any >real computer chess experience realizes that, regardless of the hype that >they might come up with. I dislike deciding that Deeper blue is better than all the PC's without seeing games against other programs. I read in one newspaper a claim that Kasparov played like an IM in the match(the newspaper is a daily newspaper and not a newspaper only for chess). It is not my opinion but people who believe it can doubt if Deeper blue was better than other top programs of that time. > >DB never played Fritz. It was first built _after_ the 1995 WCCC event. > >In the present case, shredder was in the tournament with the other >two potential competitors and it beat them both. not once either... Yes, but Crafty can get an hardware advantage and more than 8 processors and you can also say that this crafty never played in tournament because the crafty that played used clearly a slower hardware(Shredder also did not use 8 processors but the difference for Crafty is clearly bigger). Uri
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