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Subject: Re: Some analysis of Deep Fritz for kasparov-deeper blue first game

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 13:53:12 05/07/01

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On May 07, 2001 at 16:27:19, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 07, 2001 at 15:43:50, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On May 07, 2001 at 14:43:05, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On May 07, 2001 at 12:30:30, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No, he didn't "prove" anything at all.  You can't take output from a program,
>>>>>output that is incomplete due to the way they produce their PV, and then try to
>>>>>draw conclusions from it.  Any more than you can take evaluations and draw
>>>>>conclusions from them without any idea of what the evaluation looks like
>>>>>internally...
>>>>
>>>>It's hard to argue with scores produced Bob!\
>>>
>>>Why is that?  Crafty vs Diep.  Crafty says +2.5, Diep says -.2, Crafty
>>>wins.  Big score difference.  You do things (queen is way better than 2
>>>rooks, for example) that I consider unsound.
>>
>>This is a different case because there is a clear explanation for the difference
>>in evaluation.
>>
>>I do not find a good explanation for the difference in the evaluation between
>>deeper blue and the top programs and I see it as an evidence that deeper blue is
>>simply worse.
>
>I try not to jump to conclusions when I don't have any evidence.  Often as not,
>I am wrong...
>
>
>
>
>>
>>I do not believe that we can learn nothing from the logfiles of deeper blue.
>>I need to see good moves of Deeper blue when all the top programs need hours to
>>find in order to be convinced that deeper blue was stronger than the top
>>programs of today.
>
>I don't say we can learn nothing.  I do say that you can't take their scores,
>and their partial PV, and try to compare them to today's program outputs.
>Because DB's PVs were always shorter than what was actually searched.  Trying to
>speculate on what they saw, to explain a score they displayed, is futile...

I am looking only at the first plies of the pv.
I do not suggest using the length of the pv.

Uri



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