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Subject: Re: Never Say "Impossible"

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 19:54:25 05/09/01

Go up one level in this thread


On May 09, 2001 at 21:27:15, J. Wesley Cleveland wrote:

>On May 09, 2001 at 14:27:03, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On May 09, 2001 at 13:33:21, Uri Blass wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>>Suppose we find there is a forced mate in 150000 plies?  And none sooner?
>>>
>>>
>>>In this case the loser can ask for a draw during the game because of the 50 move
>>>rule so the mate is not relevant for deciding that the position is drawn.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Can you prove there isn't?
>>>
>>>I can prove for a bigger constant that there is not.
>>>The shortest mate is of less than 10^100 plies because every game of 10^100
>>>plies include repetitions and if there is a mate there is a shorter mate with no
>>>repetitions.
>
>>
>>It does not matter if the limit in plies is 5000 or 150000 because chess is
>>exponential.  Neither of those will ever be computable.  That's the whole reason
>>we bother to find out.
>>
>>Let's simplify.  We ask this question:
>>
>>Given some depth in plies n of my search, what happens to the time when I search
>>n+1 plies?
>>
>>The only thing that can solve this problem is an infinitely fast computer.
>>
>>An internet of millions of petaflop computers will never solve it.
>>
>>If that is what O(1) means, then tell me what value that definition is.
>
>If we have enough memory to represent every possible position, we can use the
>endgame tablebase algorithm, which is O(n), where n is the maximum number of
>plies (and O is about 10^50).

So we go to hell in space complexity, to improve time complexity?  If I can't
search the tree within the expected lifetime of the universe, then I certainly
can't store it in the universe.  Neither approach leads me to a warm fuzzy
feeling that chess is O(1) in time. much less O(1) in space if you assume
transposition tables and tablebase type storage.



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