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Subject: Re: Is a third native concept important, questions for a new poll ?

Author: Ulrich Tuerke

Date: 14:20:11 05/16/01

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On May 16, 2001 at 14:02:28, Frank Quisinsky wrote:

>On May 16, 2001 at 13:39:03, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>
>>On May 16, 2001 at 12:52:35, Mogens Larsen wrote:
>>
>>>Hey Frank,
>>>
>>>The only free GUI AFAIK is WinBoard. Making sure that the commercial GUIs are
>>>WinBoard compatible is the most important issue IMO. That means no crappy or
>>>flawed adapters with the intended purpose of discouraging people from using (and
>>>creating) WinBoard compatible engines.
>>>
>>>IMO the commercial software providers can create all the native protocols they
>>>wish. Of course it's an advantage with a free protocol like UCI, so that
>>>programmers can construct an engine for a (IMO) great GUI. But the GUI isn't
>>>free (it rhymes but it still costs dimes :-). If SMK released a freeware UCI GUI
>>>then it would be something else entirely. Then it would be a free alternative to
>>>WinBoard.
>>
>>Not enough, it will be an alternative if there is a free GUI with source code
>>available. Winboard is not "just" a free GUI, it is the facto standard today.
>>To have a protocol that can compete there should be a free GUI with source
>>available so the people could make suggestions, modify it, and make sure that
>>everything is fair. Then, we'll talk.
>>
>>As far as things go now, all the efforts should be concentrated in improving
>>Winboard II making the proper extensions (some are really needed!!!!).
>>Here is the land where I'd like commercial programmers to work. Making a full
>>compatible WB engine and extending the features rather than making
>>a different protocol. After time, some of the extensions may become part
>>of the "standard" if they prove to be good and there is a consensus.
>>Even Tim Mann made prot II as an extension of prot I. At that time, I was
>>finishing the first version of my program Gaviota in prot I. I was not left in
>>the dark, I did not have to rewrite everything. I could now slowly add features
>>until I make it fully WBII compatible.
>>
>>Who promise that UCI, CB of whatever GUI's will exist in 3 years? nobody can,
>>but WB will certainly be available. The source code is there, anybody could
>>go an port it to a different system and voila!
>>If SB or UCI are out of business tomorrow, the lifetime of those GUI will
>>be the lifetime of the programs sold already for systems that will be obsolete
>>in 5 years. No source code available, no future guaranteed for a "standard GUI".
>>
>>Regards,
>>Miguel
>
>Hi Miguel,
>
>you have right this is the main problem.
>
>We get the MCS System one year later MCS is out and we get UCI. The UCI protocol
>is free but not the GUI. It is a commercial GUI from a very young programmer and
>I hope the GUI is a long time available. But what is if the programmer (Stefan
>Meyer-Kahlen) say in 3 years ... !
>
>I have enough from chess and now I will every day see "Biene Maja" in the
>television.
>
>We all have a problem if all programs are compatible to UCI.

What's the problem ? The guys who have got the Shredder-5 GUI will be able to
use it even when Stephan is going to watch TV. It won't expire.

The other who don't own it (like me) won't care anyway.

Uli

>
>This is good on the free WinBoard / Source and free protocol by Tim Mann.
>
>Other example:
>Chess-Base make complete changes in the GUI and a new engine protocol. And now ?
>People buy a lot of Chess-Base Software and must buy the new software ? Look for
>an example 16Bit engines and 32Bit engines.
>
>We have not a chance to get a perfect protocol or a perfect GUI.
>I think the GUIs from Chess-Base and also the GUI from Stefan are top for a lot
>of engines. So I hope Stefan add more options in his GUI for all the user which
>have interest. If we have a perfect GUI, we need no updates, also in 5 years ...
>think so !
>
>Best
>Frank



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