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Subject: Re: Better poll question on DB

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 20:36:30 04/23/98

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On April 23, 1998 at 21:13:32, Howard Exner wrote:

>On April 23, 1998 at 20:12:27, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On April 23, 1998 at 09:20:34, Don Gaetke wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>On April 23, 1998 at 08:13:32, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On April 22, 1998 at 23:56:17, Don Gaetke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On April 22, 1998 at 22:10:34, Joe McCarron wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I wonder what computer and software will be the first Chess World
>>>>>>Champion.  Does anyone want to venture a guess when that will be?
>>>>>>Evidently IBM has no interest in trying to attain the title for deep
>>>>>>blue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>in response to your post If we had better data on how well micros do
>>>>>>against GM's, then the answer to the current poll question would provide
>>>>>>the answer to your poll question.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is beyond my unserstandign why we don't have better information on
>>>>>>how well these computers do against GM's.  I mean we all know IBM was
>>>>>>afraid to play Deep blue against GM's more regularly but these other
>>>>>>software programs would seem to jump at the chance to butt heads with
>>>>>>GM's.  What is the hold up?
>>>>>
>>>>>In DBll's case as with the previous programs DB,DTll, and DT, there has
>>>>>always been a strong need to keep things "hush, hush", in order to have
>>>>>the greatest chance to prove the point that IBM had something unique
>>>>>among computers.  It was not advantageous to disclose any performance
>>>>>than was absolutely neccessary.
>>>>>
>>>>>It may yet be that the micro's will threaten the esteem of IBM's  not so
>>>>> minor accomplishment.  After all if a PC can beat any top 5 player in
>>>>>the world in a real match, then it takes away from IBM's SuperComputing
>>>>>achievement in the eyes of the general public.
>>>>>
>>>>>Don
>>>>>
>>>>>P.S. CCC is such a breath of fresh air.  :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A couple of points:  (1) Until the "IBM" days, information about the
>>>>internals was readily available.  A chapter of a book here, a journal
>>>>article there...  chiptest/deep thought/deep thought 2 and so forth were
>>>>well written-up.  (2) today, there's little chance of a micro beating a
>>>>top-5 GM in a match.  It is unlikely in a single game, unless the match
>>>>is long enough (and I'm *not* talking about blitz games, there they have
>>>>a chance)..
>>>
>>>Actually, I was referring to the "performance" on the board.
>>>Information on DeepeBlue2 as a chess player has been scant, which is
>>>consistant with the overall history of the project.
>>>
>>>Average GM's are already threatened today at tournament level, in 6
>>>months to a year the top 5 will be as well thanks to some serious speed
>>>increases just over the horizon.
>>>
>>>Don
>>
>>
>>
>>IMHO, you should change 6 months to a year to 6-10 years.  The Micros
>>are *not* a factor of two away from playing evenly with GM players yet.
>>Not even close...
>>
>>We already have a PII/400 at the office.  Intel says 450 late this
>>year, and (possibly) Merced next year.  We already have machines as
>>fast as merced... they are spelled "alpha"...  no one's *close* to a
>>GM yet...
>
>IMHO you should change "no one's *close* to GM yet" to no one's
>close to a super GM yet. I believe that the top micro's on this fast
>hardware
>play at a weak GM level (2450 - 2550).

at faster time controls, yes.  at 40/2, no.  not yet...

an occasional win will happen.  but when you see a "top micro" get
squashed by a USCF master, you *know* it is not a GM.  GM's don't lose
to masters very often... yet on ICC these programs lose to them on a
regular basis...  except that the "operators" won't play such a player
more than once...




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