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Subject: Re: Crafty modified to Deep Blue - Crafty needs testers to produce outputs

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 12:55:01 06/18/01

Go up one level in this thread


On June 18, 2001 at 15:46:13, Bas Hamstra wrote:

>On June 18, 2001 at 13:05:38, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 2001 at 10:51:12, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>
>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:33:21, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 18, 2001 at 08:28:08, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On June 17, 2001 at 01:09:50, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On June 16, 2001 at 22:59:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>From Gian-Carlo i received tonight a cool version of crafty 18.10,
>>>>>>>namely a modified version of crafty. The modification was that it
>>>>>>>is using a small sense of Singular extensions, using a 'moreland'
>>>>>>>implementation.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Instead of modifying Crafty to simulate Deep Blue, why didn't you
>>>>>>modify Netscape?  Or anything else?  I don't see _any_  point in
>>>>>>taking a very fishy version of crafty and trying to conclude _anything_
>>>>>>about deep blue from it...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Unless you are into counting chickens to forecast weather, or something
>>>>>>else...
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't agree here. It is fun. Maybe not extremely accurate, but it says
>>>>>*something* about the efficiency of their search, which I believe is horrible. I
>>>>>think using SE and not nullmove is *inefficient* as compared to nullmove. We
>>>>>don't need 100.0000% accurate data when it's obviously an order of magnitude
>>>>>more inefficient.
>>>>
>>>>May be you are right, if the program is running on a PC. However if you can
>>>>reach a huge depth anyway because of hardware, may be you can afford to use
>>>>this, because it doesn't matter too much wasting one ply depth ?
>>>
>>>I don't see why inefficiency becomes less of a problem at higher depths.
>>>Nullmove pruning reduces your effective branching factor to 2,5 where brute
>>>force gets 4,5. So you could suspect at higher depths the difference in search
>>>depths grows, starting with 2 ply, up till how much, 5 ply?
>>
>>Several things here.  First a normal alpha/beta program does _not_ have a
>>branching factor of 4.5... it is roughly sqrt(n_root_moves) which is closer
>>to 6.
>
>Not at all. Have you never tried Crafty without nullmove? See below my engine
>output, rootposition. Where is the 6? I have never had 6, in my opinion 4,5 on
>average is normal.

I think that the initial position is relatively simple so the branching factor
is lower in this position.

Hash tables can also help for the branching factor at small depthes but I doubt
if they help much at big depthes.

Uri



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