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Subject: Re: Crafty modified to Deep Blue - Crafty needs testers to produce outputs

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 10:27:06 06/19/01

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On June 19, 2001 at 08:54:12, Dieter Buerssner wrote:

>On June 19, 2001 at 00:38:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On June 18, 2001 at 15:46:13, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>
>>>Not at all. Have you never tried Crafty without nullmove? See below my engine
>>>output, rootposition. Where is the 6? I have never had 6, in my opinion 4,5 on
>>>average is normal.
>>>
>>
>>The "norm" is sqrt(W) where W is the number of moves at a position in  the
>>tree.  In the middlegame, this is around 40 to 50.  In the endgame, much
>>less.  The simple formula for total nodes searched will convince you that
>>one more ply takes sqrt(W) more nodes.
>
>I think, this is only true without hashtables. Not only pruning techiques, also
>hashtables should decrease the branching factor. I cannot remember any quatative
>data of this effect, but it may be enough to explain the number Bas has given.
>
>Also, without hash-tables, without pruning but with search extensions, I think
>even a higher branching factor has to be expected, because the "average search
>depth" (however you define this ...) will be larger than the shown search depth.
>Adding some plies depth will add these plies at least, but also some more nodes
>due to the more extensions.
>
>Regards,
>Dieter


In the middlegame, I don't notice a lot of improvement with hashing over
non-hashing, other than I depend on that for move ordering, rather than for
scoring/cutoffs.  In endgames it becomes huge of course.

However, I could (at some point) run a few tests with no null-move, to see what
my branching factor comes out at.  If it is below 4 I will personally be
greatly surprised.  Just as I was surprised when I calculated this for Deep
Blue from the 1997 log files...



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