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Subject: Re: Congratulation for chesstiger(better performance than shredder in wmccc)

Author: Miguel A. Ballicora

Date: 07:36:42 08/24/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 24, 2001 at 10:34:38, Mark Young wrote:

>On August 24, 2001 at 10:12:50, Miguel A. Ballicora wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2001 at 10:04:45, Mark Young wrote:
>>
>>>On August 24, 2001 at 09:37:13, Ulrich Tuerke wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 08:52:51, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:58:08, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:51:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:29:21, Günther Simon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:15:30, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On August 24, 2001 at 07:06:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Here are the results by
>>>>>>>>>>elostat program
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>You can see that shredder is only 3th place micro based on the performance.
>>>>>>>>>>Shredder is the world Micro champion by definition but Tiger and Rebel had a
>>>>>>>>>>better performance.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1 Deep Junior 7                  : 2745  228 281     9    88.9 %   2384   22.2 %
>>>>>>>>>>2 Quest (DeepFritz)              : 2550  266 169     9    66.7 %   2430   44.4 %
>>>>>>>>>>3 Chess Tiger 14.6 Gambit Tiger  : 2499  291 229     9    55.6 %   2461   22.2 %
>>>>>>>>>>4 Crafty 18.10X                  : 2467  291 165     9    55.6 %   2428   44.4 %
>>>>>>>>>>5 Rebel                          : 2466  291 229     9    55.6 %   2428   22.2 %
>>>>>>>>>>6 Shredder                       : 2466  266 249     9    66.7 %   2346   22.2 %
>>>>>>>>>>7 Goliath                        : 2421  291 165     9    55.6 %   2382   44.4 %
>>>>>>>>>>8 Gromit 3.9.5                   : 2364  278 201     9    61.1 %   2285   33.3 %
>>>>>>>>>>9 Ferret                         : 2359  291 229     9    55.6 %   2320   22.2
>>>>>>>>>>%10 Gandalf 5.0                   : 2310  291 229     9    55.6 %   2271   22.2
>>>>>>>>>>%
>>>>>>>>>>11 ParSOS                        : 2256  291 229     9    55.6 %   2217   22.2 %
>>>>>>>>>>12 Diep                          : 2227  165 291     9    44.4 %   2265   44.4 %
>>>>>>>>>>13 IsiChess X                    : 2166  201 278     9    38.9 %   2245   33.3 %
>>>>>>>>>>14 Tao                           : 2165  229 291     9    44.4 %   2203   22.2 %
>>>>>>>>>>15 Ruy Lopez                     : 2118  366 266     9    33.3 %   2238    0.0 %
>>>>>>>>>>16 Pharaon                       : 2082  169 266     9    33.3 %   2202   44.4 %
>>>>>>>>>>17 SpiderGirl                    : 2014  213 255     9    27.8 %   2180   33.3 %
>>>>>>>>>>18 XiNiX                         : 1724  400 108     9     5.6 %   2216
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>LOOK AT THE ERROR MARGINS ! ELOstat is in perfect agreement with everything.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11.1 %
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>congratulation also for the Deep Junior team for winning the event convincingly
>>>>>>>>>>when the difference from the second place is almost 200 elo and the hardware
>>>>>>>>>>explain less than 70 elo difference.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I can add that I think that it may be a better idea to use elostat to decide
>>>>>>>>>about the world champion in the future.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I know that a lot of people are going to disagree but it is my opinion.
>>>>>>>>>I prefer a complicated method that does more justive and not a simple method.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Sorry Uri - but this is really nonsens.
>>>>>>>>You cant use ELO-Stat on a Swiss Tournament with 9 rounds as
>>>>>>>>it is described by the author. ELO-Stat is designed to calculate
>>>>>>>>ratings out of a pool of unknown rated progs with a very very lot
>>>>>>>>of games.
>>>>>>>>Therefor if you take a closer look at your table you would see that
>>>>>>>>the error margin is at least 435!pts (Pharaon) and max 632!! (RuyLopez).
>>>>>>>>And would you really believe Parallel SOS to be at 2256? :))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The question is not which program is better.
>>>>>>>competitions of 9 rounds are not supposed to answer this question.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The question is which program did better result.
>>>>>>>The elostat answer this question better than the ranking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The rating is also based on average of 2300 if I remember corectly and should
>>>>>>>not be compared with humans.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>You must be a strong Tigerfan to post this very unlike post, as it
>>>>>>>>is diametral to all your previous posts about stats?!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I do not see contradiction with previous posts of myself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>(Btw hasnt Shredder won against Tiger or am I out of memory?)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes
>>>>>>>Shredder won against tiger.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I can add congratulations for crafty for being the best amatuer.
>>>>>>I here that Gromit won the title of the best amatuer and it is unfair because
>>>>>>Crafty was more than 100 elo better
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I know that Gromit beated Crafty in the last round but it does not change the
>>>>>>fact that Crafty was more than 100 elo better based on elostat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>A nine round Swiss tournament to determine the computer world championship in my
>>>>>mind makes the title world champion a joke.  This is nothing more then another
>>>>>computer chess tournament. To draw any conclusions from this one tournament and
>>>>>then declare the winner to be the world champion makes me sick. If the title of
>>>>>computer world champion means the winner is declared the strongest computer
>>>>>program.
>>>>
>>>>It's just the same with human tournaments. The world champion is determined as
>>>>the winner of a special tournament.
>>>
>>>Not Correct, yes they play tournaments, but never using the Swiss tournament
>>>system.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>That's an exciting and interesting way to determine the champion and I seriously
>>>>can't see what's wrong with this.
>>>
>>>You don't see a problem with an open tournament with only 9 rounds to declar a
>>>world champion? No Human Champion has ever been declared this way.
>>
>>Yes, every single year the Junior World Champion is declared after
>>a swiss tournament. In fact, preliminary qualifiers for the FIDE title
>>are also swiss tournaments. The Panamerican just finished with 140+ strong
>>players (Yermolinsky won).
>
>That is the point, you play qualifiers not 1 open tournament to declar the Human
>World Champion. So you must play much more then 9 rounds in one *open*
>Tournament.

The final of the World Junior Ch is Swiss.

Regards,
Miguel

>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Miguel



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