Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Wanted: Deep Blue vs. today's top programs recap

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 02:41:38 08/26/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 26, 2001 at 05:21:57, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 26, 2001 at 04:56:46, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On August 25, 2001 at 21:45:23, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On August 25, 2001 at 21:27:32, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>
>>>there is loads of data, megabytes of logfiles.
>>>
>>>Checkout the mainlines from DB and the moves it made.
>>>Plenty and plenty of data to test your engine at and compare with.
>>>
>>>I'm only 2300 rated and FM soon (list 1 octobre 2001), but i can
>>>follow each move in every game and explain most mistakes made by DB
>>>by quite simple chessknowledge mistakes.
>>>
>>>How about you?
>>>
>>>The only counter argument i keep hearing is that it beated kasparov!
>>>
>>>Well kasparov also lost from genius somewhere in 1989 already, genius
>>>at a 286 or something?
>>>
>>>>On August 25, 2001 at 20:47:44, Mig Greengard wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Sorry to dredge this up yet again, and ignore this rather than turn it into a
>>>>>flame war or something worse. I know feelings on this topic can run hot.
>>>>>
>>>>>Although we do not have enough of Deep Blue's games to make anywhere near an
>>>>>accurate assessment of its chess strength, I am requesting a summary of thoughts
>>>>>on how today's top programs measure up on a science level. In the past I've seen
>>>>>some admirably objective breakdowns on this topic from Bob Hyatt and a few
>>>>>others, but did not save them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Put Deep Fritz, or other top programs, on the best available platform on which
>>>>>they can run, and I imagine this is what they will have in Bahrain, and knowing
>>>>>what we do about DB, what comparisons can we make?
>>>>>
>>>>>Subjective arguments (chess knowledge in particular) are also welcome, but
>>>>>should be concise as opposed to argumentative!
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks, Mig
>>>>>
>>>>>Editor-in-chief
>>>>>http://www.kasparovchess.com
>>>>
>>>>Expect great foolishness on both sides of the fence.
>>>>You will hear:
>>>>The best chess engine of all time (my position, but I may very well be wrong)
>>>>You will hear:
>>>>"My amateur engine could beat its pants off"
>>>>
>>>>Since we don't have access to Deep Blue, it is all pure speculation.  The answer
>>>>to all of our questions about Deep Blue is rooted in data.  Data is what is
>>>>missing, so we really have no answers.
>>>>
>>>>To look at a game and say:
>>>>"By looking at the quality of this move, I recognize that Deep Blue is sheer
>>>>genius!"
>>>>You might be looking at the output of a BUG in the software.
>>>>
>>>>We might puzzle mightily at some move that looks dumb.  "Look at this boneheaded
>>>>move!"
>>>>But Deep Blue saw something all the null movers trim out, and would not see if
>>>>they ran their programs for a year.
>>>>
>>>>In short, if you expect reliable responses that have scientific value, don't
>>>>hold your breath.  On the other hand, you should get plenty of stuff if you are
>>>>interested in "Yellow Journalism."
>>>>;-)
>>
>>Mr. Vincent Diepeveen , if you won't talk intelligently about Deep Blue II
>>then please shutup!
>>
>>You know better or should know better! I've heard this idiotic arguement by
>>you again and again, I really don't know how IBM's Deep Blue team can keep
>>silent in view of your skewed data!
>>
>>I hope Dr. Robert Hyatt, can somehow put your distortion of Deep Blue's
>>ability to rest, but somehow I think that's impossible due to the fact
>>you like to continue to lie about Deep Blue II's ability/inability!
>
>I believe that he does not lie about Deep blue II.
>lying is not only saying wrong things.
>lying is saying things that you believe that they are wrong.
>
>Saying things that other people told you that they are wrong is not lying if you
>do not believe the other people. He knows better Uri!
>
>>You're full of it, and thousands know it, so why continue?
>>Who do you think you're kidding?
>>Deep Blue II is _not_ 2800, but hell, it sure is over 2600+ period, and no
>>commercial programme can boast true Super GM strength!
>
>It is not clear. BS!
>Tiger and Junior did super GM performance in tournaments.
>
> It's truly stronger
>>than any commercial programme on todays' hardware, PC class, or 8-Way
>>Box.
>
>It is not proved. Nonsense!
>You have the right to have your opinion and other people may have different
>opinions.
>
>Uri

Opinions are just that...opinions, but facts are facts and the Deep Blue II's
log files reveal many facts.

Mr. Diepeveen, outright lies, knowing these facts!

TM



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.