Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 02:28:46 08/27/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 25, 2001 at 22:52:19, Dann Corbit wrote: >On August 25, 2001 at 22:27:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>On August 25, 2001 at 19:55:45, Dann Corbit wrote: >[snip] >>In fact i prefer to play zugzwang, zugzwang at a 500 processor 21264 600Mhz >>21264 alpha. >> >>That's about 300Ghz or so. > >Not remotely. That machine used message passing. It's a miracle they made it >work at all. > >>Because a world championship IMHO is about letting the best programs play, >>no matter hardware. If a factor 4 speedup would be 100 rating points >>according to your calculations, then what rating would >>Zugzwang be at? >> >>Please consider that it lost from lambchop at wcc99. lambchop was searching >>most of the moves 8 ply and ran at a 450Mhz PII. >> >>Zugzwang ran at a processor or 500 at 450Mhz and all 21164s, starting >>with 13 ply out of hashtables or so. >> >>The 4 times faster is 100 rating points is nowadays complete nonsense. >> >>Speed says nothing if the conditions are met. Chess is about the weakest >>point. I'm sure that bugs in diep's eval are more important than getting >>another ply. > >Then why don't you play on a 386 if the speed is meaningless? I don't believe >it for a microsecond. Take the same algorithm and double the speed, it searches >deeper. If deeper is not better, your algorithm is a pure bug-pile. this is a very bad example. I've been about the only one saying that you first need 12-14 ply before eval starts to matter a lot. With nowadays extensions i use that'll be more like 11-13 than 12-14 though. The extra you win from getting a ply deeper is very little compared to a better evaluation. Good examples are for example the mistake tiger made against junior. Even after half an hour at the hotel room tiger still wanted to play f5?? This where a better eval would not do that even at a small depth. Let's put diep onto it. >>Getting another 2 ply for free with diep definitely doesn't give me 100 >>rating points. Of course within 2 years i will get up way more than >>100 rating points and that's only 1 ply deeper then probably at those >>hardware (considering the big heats cpu's produce nowadays i must see >>that i'm 2 times faster in 2 years than what i can buy now in a shop), >>but the progress 100% sure will be caused by improvements in eval and >>not by that extra ply. > >I think probably you have a serious bug if additional depth (while using the >same algorithms) does not help a lot.
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