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Subject: Re: i think this is dishonest marketing, and very unprofessional

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 02:28:46 08/27/01

Go up one level in this thread


On August 25, 2001 at 22:52:19, Dann Corbit wrote:

>On August 25, 2001 at 22:27:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>On August 25, 2001 at 19:55:45, Dann Corbit wrote:
>[snip]
>>In fact i prefer to play zugzwang, zugzwang at a 500 processor 21264 600Mhz
>>21264 alpha.
>>
>>That's about 300Ghz or so.
>
>Not remotely.  That machine used message passing.  It's a miracle they made it
>work at all.
>
>>Because a world championship IMHO is about letting the best programs play,
>>no matter hardware. If a factor 4 speedup would be 100 rating points
>>according to your calculations, then what rating would
>>Zugzwang be at?
>>
>>Please consider that it lost from lambchop at wcc99. lambchop was searching
>>most of the moves 8 ply and ran at a 450Mhz PII.
>>
>>Zugzwang ran at a processor or 500 at 450Mhz and all 21164s, starting
>>with 13 ply out of hashtables or so.
>>
>>The 4 times faster is 100 rating points is nowadays complete nonsense.
>>
>>Speed says nothing if the conditions are met. Chess is about the weakest
>>point. I'm sure that bugs in diep's eval are more important than getting
>>another ply.
>
>Then why don't you play on a 386 if the speed is meaningless?  I don't believe
>it for a microsecond.  Take the same algorithm and double the speed, it searches
>deeper.  If deeper is not better, your algorithm is a pure bug-pile.

this is a very bad example. I've been about the only one saying
that you first need 12-14 ply before eval starts to matter a lot.

With nowadays extensions i use that'll be more like 11-13 than 12-14 though.

The extra you win from getting a ply deeper is very little compared to
a better evaluation.

Good examples are for example the mistake tiger made against junior.
Even after half an hour at the hotel room tiger still wanted to play f5??

This where a better eval would not do that even at a small depth.

Let's put diep onto it.



>>Getting another 2 ply for free with diep definitely doesn't give me 100
>>rating points. Of course within 2 years i will get up way more than
>>100 rating points and that's only 1 ply deeper then probably at those
>>hardware (considering the big heats cpu's produce nowadays i must see
>>that i'm 2 times faster in 2 years than what i can buy now in a shop),
>>but the progress 100% sure will be caused by improvements in eval and
>>not by that extra ply.
>
>I think probably you have a serious bug if additional depth (while using the
>same algorithms) does not help a lot.



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