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Subject: Re: crafty at the internet vs diep

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 05:01:55 05/14/98

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On May 13, 1998 at 13:54:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 13, 1998 at 11:55:37, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On May 13, 1998 at 08:00:40, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Big surprise was that Diep played so well in blitz in Paris,
>>
>>[snip]
>>
>>>Against Junior diep had a totally won
>>>position, but then diep searched 5 seconds for a move, played it and
>>>lost. at second 6 it would have gotten a fail low. 6 ply ain't enough to
>>>see tactically everything. But in that position 6 ply would have been
>>>enough
>>>to win it.
>>
>>
>>Vincent, I'm real busy now. Why do I have to waste time to correct your
>>statements ?
>>
>>The Paris game Diep-Junior is below. Diep plays 32.Qc1 and loses
>>immediately. It has better moves (say R1a5 or Rxb7), but this gives
>>white equality at best. I'll take black here anytime.
>>
>>Pity Qc1 didn't work out. It was a real crushing move ! I'm a bit
>>puzzled how you managed to play it. I looked what level I need to find
>>32...Nd3 and I find it in depth 1. Perhaps I can find it in quiescence
>>only. If you can't avoid such moves in 5 seconds, I suggest a major
>>redesign of your program.
>>
>>
>>[Event "?"]
>>[Site "?"]
>>[Date "?"]
>>[Round "5"]
>>[White "Diep"]
>>[Black "Junior"]
>>[Result "0-1"]
>>[ECO "?"]
>>
>>1. d4 d5 2. a3 Bf5 3. Bf4 e6 4. e3 Bd6 5. Ne2 Ne7 6. Nd2 Nbc6
>>7. c4 O-O 8. Bg3 a5 9. c5 Bxg3 10. hxg3 Qd7 11. Nf3 b6 12. Rc1 Rfb8
>>13. Qd2 b5 14. Nf4 a4 15. Bd3 h6 16. Bxf5 exf5 17. Qe2 b4 18. axb4 Rxb4
>>19. Ra1 Qc8 20. Nd3 Rbb8 21. Ra3 Qe8 22. Qc2 Nb4 23. Nxb4 Rxb4 24. O-O
>>Qb5
>>25. Rb1 Rb8 26. Qd1 Nc6 27. Nh4 g6 28. Rba1 Rxb2 29. Rxa4 Kh7 30. Ra6
>>Nb4
>>31. Ra7 Rb7 32. Qc1 Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. c6 Qb6 35. Qf1 Nxf2 36. Qe1
>>Ng4
>>37. Qc1 Qb3 38. Qe1 Nxe3 39. Kh1 Qd3 40. Nf3 Rxg2 41. Qxe3 Qxe3 42. Kxg2
>>Qe2
>>43. Kh3 Qxf3 44. Kh2 Qf2 45. Kh1 Qxg3 46. Rf1 f4 47. Ra1 Qf3 48. Kg1 Qe3
>>49. Kh1 Qe4 50. Kh2 Qe2 51. Kh1 f3 0-1
>>
>>
>>Amir
>
>
>
>I agree.  My "broken quiescence search" (Vincent's words, not mine)
>finds
>this as follows, after white's move 32:
>              depth   time  score   variation (1)
>                1     0.00   0.24   32. ... Nd3
>                1->   0.00   0.24   32. ... Nd3
>                2     0.00   0.44   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7
>                2     0.00   0.47   32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1
>                2->   0.01   0.47   32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1
>                3     0.04   0.68   32. ... Rxa7 33. Rxa7 Qe2 34. Qf1
>                3->   0.08   0.68   32. ... Rxa7 33. Rxa7 Qe2 34. Qf1
>                4     0.09   0.44   32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1
>                                    Kh8 35. Nf3
>                4->   0.13   0.44   32. ... Rxa7 33. Qxb2 Rxa1+ 34. Qxa1
>                                    Kh8 35. Nf3
>                5     0.21     --   32. ... Rxa7
>                5     0.25   0.14   32. ... Rxa7 33. Rxa7 Qe2 34. Qf1
>Qxf1+
>                                    35. Kxf1 Rb1+ 36. Ke2 Rb2+ 37. Kf3
>                5     0.29     ++   32. ... Nd3!!
>                5     0.30   1.64   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1

You need 5 ply to see Nd3 winning.
Diep searched 5 ply starting with 6 in Paris.

Nowadays it gets it within 2 seconds, but that's of no use.
The most important blitz contest last year Junior won against Diep.

It's interesting to see how Diep can get with 5 ply searches, sometimes
6 ply searches such a position against Junior, getting way deeper.

The depth of Junior always amazes me, just like genius depth (although
genius does only print out its positional depth, it seems to see 2 ply
more).

>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3
>                5->   0.40   1.64   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3
>                6     0.47   1.77   32. ... Nd3 33. Qc3 Nxf2 34. Nf3
>Rxa7
>                                    35. Rxa7 Ne4
>                6->   0.61   1.77   32. ... Nd3 33. Qc3 Nxf2 34. Nf3
>Rxa7
>                                    35. Rxa7 Ne4
>                7     0.74   1.68   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2
>                7->   0.94   1.68   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2
>                8     1.15   1.82   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2 Qc6
>                8->   1.44   1.82   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Ne4 36. Kh2 Qc6
>                9     1.80   1.84   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Qb3 36. Qc1 c6 37. Qe1
>                9->   2.42   1.84   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Qb3 36. Qc1 c6 37. Qe1
>               10     3.20     ++   32. ... Nd3!!
>               10->   4.89   2.13   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. Qf1
>Nxf2
>                                    35. Nf3 Qb3 36. Qc1 c6 37. Qe1
>               11     7.09   2.33   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. c6 Qb3
>                                    35. Qf1 Nxf2 36. Qe1 Qb5 37. Qc1 Qe2
>                                    38. Nf3
>               11->  10.08   2.33   32. ... Nd3 33. Rxb7 Qxb7 34. c6 Qb3
>                                    35. Qf1 Nxf2 36. Qe1 Qb5 37. Qc1 Qe2
>                                    38. Nf3
>
>
>So it looks good at 1 ply, but turns *real* good after only .29 seconds.
>It doesn't take much to find that.  If you don't in 5 seconds, something
>is seriously wrong...



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