Author: Slater Wold
Date: 23:16:23 08/29/01
Go up one level in this thread
On August 30, 2001 at 01:43:20, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 30, 2001 at 01:24:25, Slater Wold wrote: > >>On August 30, 2001 at 00:54:03, Jeremiah Penery wrote: >> >>>On August 29, 2001 at 23:19:43, Slater Wold wrote: >>> >>>>On August 29, 2001 at 13:14:41, José Antônio Fabiano Mendes wrote: >>>> >>>>> Cray Blitz vs Belle [1981 North American Computer Chess Championship] >>>>> The (in)famous position Dr. Hyatt referred to the other day: >>>>> [D]5r1k/6p1/1n2Q2p/4p3/8/7P/PP4PK/R1B1q3 w >>>>> And here Cray Blitz played 28.Qxb6 >>>>> Source: http://wondersmith.com/rants/howfar.htm >>>> >>>>I understand that CB took only 10 seconds to play, and was limited to 1K nps. >>>>However, I wanted to post this, to show only 1 thing: >>>> >>>>position: >>>> >>>> 8.01 0:00 -0.25 1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Kh7 3.Qxb6 Qxa2 4.b4 Rf7 5.Qe3 Qb1 >>>>(268.921) 312.3 >>>> 9.01 0:02 -0.18 1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Kh7 3.Qxb6 Qxa2 4.b4 Rf7 5.b5 Qd5 6.Qb8 >>>>(903.942) 321.2 >>>> 9.03 0:04 -0.17++ 1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qg6 Rg8 3.Bf4 Rb8 4.Bxe5 Rb7 5.Qc6 Kh7 >>>>6.Qxb7 Qg1+ 7.Kxg1 (1.356.976) 321.8 >>>> 9.03 0:04 0.00 1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qg6 gxh6 3.Qxh6+ Kg8 4.Qg6+ Kh8 5.Qh6+ Kg8 >>>>(1.533.066) 325.0 >>>> 10.01 0:07 0.00 1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qg6 gxh6 3.Qxh6+ Kg8 4.Qg6+ Kh8 5.Qh6+ Kg8 >>>>(2.517.038) 332.0 >>>> 11.01 0:27 +0.01 1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qe7 Rg8 3.Be3 Rc8 4.Bxb6 Qxb2 5.Bc7 Qxa2 >>>>6.Bxe5 Qg8 7.Qh4+ Qh7 8.Qg4 (9.074.087) 331.3 >>>> 12.01 1:00 +0.26++ 1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qe7 Rg8 3.Be3 Rc8 4.Bxb6 Qxb2 5.Bc7 Qxa2 >>>>6.Bxe5 Qxg2+ 7.Kxg2 Re8 8.Qxe8+ (19.746.518) 327.1 >>>> 12.01 1:30 +0.68 1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qe7 Rg8 3.Be3 Qb1 4.Bxb6 Qg6 5.Be3 Re8 6.Qd7 >>>>Kg8 7.a4 Qf7 8.Qc6 Kh8 (29.906.848) 331.8 >>>>best move: Bc1xh6 time: 3:04.325 min n/s: 321.286 CPU 98.6% nodes: 59.221.207 >>>> >>>>Deep Shredder here takes a little over 3 minutes, and plays Bxh6. I choose 3 >>>>minutes, because it is a good time for an average tournament move. In 3 minutes >>>>it hits roughly 60M nodes, at a rate of 321K nps. >>>> >>>>If CB had search 60M nodes, it would have taken 987 hours. However, as you can >>>>see in Deep Shredder's eval, it _NEVER_ looks at Qxb6. So the knowledge is in >>>>Deep Shredder. >>> >>>The output you pasted starts at 8 ply. Does Shredder look at Qxb6 from ply 1-7? >>> I think it probably does at some point. >> >>I am not sure how much you pay attention to the eval of _most_ chess programs, >>but most skip the first few plies. > >No >some programs simply do not show the analysis at small depth but no program skip >the first plies. > > If you look at the average nps I was getting >>(321,286 nps) and then look at the total nodes searched at the end of the first >>shown ply (268,921) you'll see that it started on ply 8. Deep Shredder is >>packed with knowledge, and is a "selective search" engine. >> >>Therefore, it's safe to say it "skipped" over the first 8 ply, and started to >>actually "search" at ply 8. > >No > >Here is analysis of shredder5.32 on p200 > >New position >5r1k/6p1/1n2Q2p/4p3/8/7P/PP4PK/R1B1q3 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Shredder 5.32: > >1.Qxb6 > +- (3.18) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Qf2 2.Qxf2 Rxf2 > +- (6.02) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Qf2 2.Qxf2 Rxf2 > +- (6.02) Depth: 1/2 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Qf2 2.Qxf2 Rxf2 > +- (6.02) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Qf2 2.Qxf2 Rxf2 > +- (6.02) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Qf2 2.Qxf2 Rxf2 > +- (6.02) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Kh7 2.Qe3 Qxe3 3.Bxe3 > +- (5.91) Depth: 4/8 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qe3 Rh1# > +- (5.66) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Qd3+ e4 4.Qg3 > +- (5.25) Depth: 5/10 00:00:00 >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Be3 Qxa1 > +- (5.00) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 10kN >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Be3 Qxa1 4.Qd1 Rxd1 > +- (4.50) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 11kN >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Qd3+ e4 4.Qxf1 Qxf1 5.a4 Qf2 6.b4 > = (-0.02) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 20kN >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Qd3+ e4 4.Qxf1 Qxf1 5.Bd2 Qxa1 > ³ (-0.27) Depth: 7/14 00:00:03 107kN >1.Qxb6 Rf1 2.Qd8+ Kh7 3.Qd3+ e4 4.Qxf1 Qxf1 5.a4 e3 6.b4 e2 7.Bb2 > ³ (-0.53) Depth: 7/14 00:00:03 116kN >1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qg6 Rg8 3.Qxb6 Rb8 4.Bxg7+ Kxg7 5.Qxb8 Qxa2 > ³ (-0.52) Depth: 7/14 00:00:04 144kN >1.Bxh6 Qxa1 2.Qg6 Rg8 3.Qxb6 Kh7 4.Bg5 Qxa2 > ³ (-0.48) Depth: 7/14 00:00:04 148kN >1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Qxa2 3.Bxg7+ Kh7 4.Qxa2 Kxg7 > ³ (-0.47) Depth: 7/14 00:00:06 235kN >1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Kh7 3.Qxb6 Qxb2 4.Bxb2 > = (-0.12) Depth: 7/14 00:00:06 248kN >1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Kh7 3.Qxb6 Qxa2 4.b4 Qb1 5.Qd6 > = (-0.11) Depth: 7/14 00:00:07 256kN >1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Kh7 3.Qxb6 Qxa2 4.b4 Rf7 5.Qe3 Qb1 > = (-0.25) Depth: 8/16 00:00:08 297kN > >Uri Ok, well, my mistake. As you can see in my eval: 8.01 0:00 -0.25 1.Bf4 Qxa1 2.Bxe5 Kh7 3.Qxb6 Qxa2 4.b4 Rf7 5.Qe3 Qb1(268.921) 312.3 0:00 seconds. 268kN. Which is exaclty your ply 8. And exactly the same score. I apologize. A _LOT_ of my interfaces don't show the first few lines. But you're right, Chessbase does. (Which I don't have loaded on this computer.) Slate
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