Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 16:32:29 09/15/01
Go up one level in this thread
I do not know fritz tactical strength, but i know it seems to prune bigtime somehow (huge nullmove reduction factor?), well i see in games that diep sometimes sees tactical things which fritz doesn't. But in this position let's not talk about what fritz finds for kind of move. Let's face reality that there are 2 good reasons to not play f3? a) it is a tactical blunder because Bh5 wins major material b) after e3 black wins a piece and can win blindfolded. Of course from objective viewpoint f3 is therefore a major blunder because of a. This where the alternative gxf4 is keeping the position complex and also here gets nearly -3.0 but still it's better than -5.0 for f3. Deep blue made a tactical blunder, i cannot conclude else! The f3 Bh5 line is simplistic tactics! On September 15, 2001 at 19:21:28, Uri Blass wrote: >On September 15, 2001 at 18:58:39, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On September 15, 2001 at 18:37:06, Slater Wold wrote: >> >>DIEP has more SE than Deep blue had. >>As far as i know nimzo has only deepsearch extensions. >> >>Note you should move f3 and then let them search deeply. i go up to +5.0 >>soon for Bh5 there. > >Here is Deep Fritz's opinion after f3 > >New position >8/p4bpk/7p/3rq3/3Npp2/PPQ2PP1/3R2KP/8 b - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >1...Qxd4-- > ² (0.41) Depth: 1/6 00:00:00 >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.hxg3 Qf6 > ³ (-0.66) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >1...e3 2.Rd3 e2 3.Kf2 fxg3+ 4.hxg3 > µ (-0.94) Depth: 5/20 00:00:00 31kN >1...exf3+! > µ (-0.97) Depth: 5/20 00:00:00 43kN >1...exf3+! 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.Rd3 fxg3+ 4.hxg3 > µ (-1.09) Depth: 5/20 00:00:00 63kN >1...exf3+ 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.Qc4 fxg3+ 4.hxg3 Qg5 5.Qc3 > µ (-1.22) Depth: 6/21 00:00:00 111kN >1...exf3+ 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.b4 Bg4 4.Rd3 fxg3+ 5.hxg3 Qe4 > µ (-1.28) Depth: 7/22 00:00:00 252kN >1...exf3+ 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.Qd3+ Bg6 4.Qc3 Be4 5.g4 Qd6 6.b4 > µ (-1.31) Depth: 8/24 00:00:00 529kN >1...exf3+ 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.Qd3+ Bg6 4.Qc3 Be4 5.g4 Rc5 6.Qb4 a5 > µ (-1.31) Depth: 9/26 00:00:01 1266kN >1...exf3+ 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.b4 Bg4 4.b5 fxg3+ 5.hxg3 Qh5 6.Kg1 Rc5 7.Qd3+ > µ (-1.31) Depth: 10/28 00:00:04 2943kN >1...exf3+ 2.Kf2 Bh5 3.b4 Bg4 4.b5 Kg8 5.Qb3 fxg3+ 6.hxg3 Qh5 7.Kg1 > -+ (-1.41) Depth: 11/30 00:00:12 8841kN >1...e3! > -+ (-1.44) Depth: 11/30 00:00:16 11424kN >1...e3! 2.Rd3 fxg3 3.Ne2 gxh2 4.Rxd5 Qxc3 5.Nxc3 > -+ (-1.53) Depth: 11/30 00:00:18 12883kN >1...Bh5! > -+ (-1.56) Depth: 11/32 00:00:32 23170kN >1...Bh5! 2.gxf4 Qxf4 3.Kg1 exf3 4.Kf1 f2 5.Qd3+ Bg6 6.Qc3 Qxh2 7.Nf3 > -+ (-1.84) Depth: 11/32 00:00:43 30887kN >1...Bh5! > -+ (-2.16) Depth: 12/34 00:01:02 44969kN >1...Bh5 2.g4 e3 3.Rd1 Bg6 4.Kh3 Rxd4 5.Rxd4 e2 6.Qe1 Qxd4 > -+ (-2.34) Depth: 13/35 00:02:26 104888kN >1...Bh5! > -+ (-2.66) Depth: 14/38 00:05:24 227117kN >1...Bh5! > -+ (-2.97) Depth: 15/41 00:13:31 565196kN > >(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.09.2001) > >After f3 Bh5 Deep Fritz says: >New position >8/p5pk/7p/3rq2b/3Npp2/PPQ2PP1/3R2KP/8 w - - 0 1 > >Analysis by Deep Fritz: > >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxg3 > µ (-0.91) Depth: 6/19 00:00:00 107kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.h4 Qh2+ 5.Kf1 Qh3+ 6.Kf2 Bg6 7.Qf3 Qh2+ > µ (-0.94) Depth: 7/21 00:00:00 218kN >2.fxe4-- > µ (-1.25) Depth: 8/24 00:00:00 422kN >2.fxe4-- > µ (-1.25) Depth: 8/27 00:00:00 488kN >2.g4! > µ (-1.22) Depth: 8/27 00:00:00 560kN >2.g4-- > -+ (-1.53) Depth: 9/21 00:00:01 1096kN >2.g4-- e3 3.Rd1 Bg6 4.Kh3 Rxd4 5.Qxd4 e2 6.Qxe5 exd1Q > -+ (-2.06) Depth: 9/25 00:00:01 1251kN >2.fxe4! > -+ (-2.03) Depth: 9/25 00:00:01 1387kN >2.fxe4! Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.gxf4 Qxh2+ 5.Kf1 Qxf4+ 6.Kg1 Qg4+ 7.Kf2 > -+ (-1.59) Depth: 9/27 00:00:02 1829kN >2.gxf4! > -+ (-1.56) Depth: 9/27 00:00:02 2186kN >2.gxf4! Qxf4 3.Kg1 exf3 4.Kf1 Bg4 5.Qd3+ Kh8 6.Qc3 > -+ (-1.53) Depth: 9/27 00:00:03 2370kN >2.gxf4-- > -+ (-1.84) Depth: 10/26 00:00:06 4523kN >2.gxf4-- Qxf4 3.Kg1 Rd6 4.Rg2 Qf6 5.Rd2 Bxf3 6.Qe3 > -+ (-1.87) Depth: 10/26 00:00:06 4815kN >2.fxe4! > -+ (-1.84) Depth: 10/30 00:00:07 5719kN >2.g4! > -+ (-1.81) Depth: 10/30 00:00:11 8482kN >2.g4-- > -+ (-2.12) Depth: 11/28 00:00:14 10717kN >2.g4-- e3 3.Rd1 Bg6 4.Kh3 Rxd4 5.Rxd4 e2 6.Qe1 > -+ (-2.31) Depth: 11/28 00:00:16 12074kN >2.fxe4! > -+ (-2.28) Depth: 11/31 00:00:18 13565kN >2.fxe4 Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.Qd3+ Bg6 5.Qf3 Qxh2+ 6.Qg2 fxg3+ 7.Kf1 Rh5 > -+ (-2.41) Depth: 12/35 00:00:46 33748kN >2.g4! > -+ (-2.37) Depth: 12/35 00:00:50 36499kN >2.g4! e3 3.Rd1 Bg6 4.Kh3 Rxd4 > -+ (-2.34) Depth: 12/35 00:00:52 37934kN >2.g4-- > -+ (-2.66) Depth: 13/32 00:01:24 61487kN >2.g4-- e3 3.Rd1 Bf7 4.Qc2+ Bg6 5.Qc4 e2 6.Re1 Rxd4 7.Rxe2 Qd6 > -+ (-2.72) Depth: 13/36 00:01:38 71530kN >2.fxe4! > -+ (-2.69) Depth: 13/37 00:02:11 95269kN >2.fxe4! Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.Qd3+ Bg6 5.Qf3 Qxh2+ 6.Qg2 fxg3+ 7.Kf1 Rh5 > -+ (-2.62) Depth: 13/38 00:02:38 114441kN >2.fxe4-- > -+ (-2.94) Depth: 14/39 00:04:44 204688kN >2.fxe4-- Qxe4+ 3.Kf2 Qh1 4.Qd3+ Kh8 5.gxf4 Qxh2+ 6.Kf1 Qxf4+ 7.Ke1 Qh4+ > -+ (-4.19) Depth: 14/41 00:09:44 406536kN > >(Blass, Tel-aviv 16.09.2001) > >Note that I did not finish iteration 14 >and I see that Deep Fritz failed high on 2.gxf4 > >Note that the score of Deep Fritz at depth 15 for 1.gxf4 is >3.03 pawns against white when the score at depth 13 for >the position after 1.f3 Bh5 is only 2.62 against white >so I suspect(but not sure) that Fritz may find 1.f3 in the root >position at depth 15. > >Uri >> >> >> >>>On September 15, 2001 at 17:12:37, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>[D]8/p4bpk/7p/3rq3/3Npp2/PPQ3P1/3R1PKP/8 w - - 3 32 >>> >>>Deep Fritz fails low on gxf4 in :54 seconds, but has a hard time replacing it. >>> >>>Deep Fritz T29c - W,S >>>8/p4bpk/7p/3rq3/3Npp2/PPQ3P1/3R1PKP/8 w - - 0 1 >>> >>>Analysis by Deep Fritz T29c: >>> >>>1.gxf4 >>> ³ (-0.50) Depth: 1/3 00:00:00 >>>1.Kg1 fxg3 >>> ³ (-0.44) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 f3+ >>> ³ (-0.28) Depth: 2/14 00:00:00 >>>1.Rd1 Qh5 2.Qe1 f3+ 3.Kg1 >>> ³ (-0.41) Depth: 3/13 00:00:00 3kN >>>1.h3! >>> ³ (-0.37) Depth: 3/15 00:00:00 4kN >>>1.h3! f3+ >>> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 3/15 00:00:00 5kN >>>1.gxf4! >>> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 3/16 00:00:00 6kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Qg4+ 3.Qg3 Qh5 >>> = (-0.25) Depth: 4/14 00:00:00 7kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Qg4+ 3.Qg3 Qh5 4.Kg1 >>> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 5/15 00:00:00 20kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Qg4+ 3.Qg3 Qh5 4.Kg1 a6 >>> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 6/17 00:00:00 41kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Qg4+ 3.Qg3 Qh5 4.Qe3 Qg6+ 5.Qg3 Qf6 >>> ³ (-0.31) Depth: 7/19 00:00:00 77kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kh1 Qg4 4.f4 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bd5 >>> ³ (-0.37) Depth: 8/22 00:00:00 163kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kh1 Qg4 4.f4 exf3 5.Nxf3 Bd5 6.Rf2 >>> ³ (-0.34) Depth: 9/21 00:00:00 435kN >>>1.gxf4-- >>> ³ (-0.66) Depth: 10/28 00:00:00 829kN >>>1.gxf4-- Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kf1 Qxh2 4.Qxe4+ Bg6 5.Qe3 Re5 6.Qf3 Be4 >>> µ (-0.91) Depth: 10/28 00:00:01 1322kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kf1 Qxh2 4.Qxe4+ Bg6 5.Qe3 Re5 6.Qf3 Be4 >>> µ (-0.78) Depth: 11/28 00:00:10 10103kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kf1 Qxh2 4.Qxe4+ Bg6 5.Qe3 Rg1+ 6.Ke2 Qh5+ >>> µ (-0.87) Depth: 12/30 00:00:15 14926kN >>>1.gxf4-- >>> µ (-1.19) Depth: 13/32 00:00:36 35237kN >>>1.gxf4-- Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kh1 Qg4 4.f4 exf3 5.Qf2 Qf4 6.Nxf3 Bd5 >>> -+ (-1.69) Depth: 13/34 00:00:54 51719kN >>>1.gxf4 Qxf4 2.Qe3 Rg5+ 3.Kh1 Qg4 4.f4 exf3 5.Qf2 Bd5 6.Rd1 Kg6 >>> -+ (-1.78) Depth: 14/34 00:03:06 176328kN >>>1.gxf4-- >>> -+ (-2.09) Depth: 15/37 00:06:25 368131kN >>>1.gxf4-- Qxf4 2.Kh1 Rg5 3.f3 Bh5 4.Rg2 exf3 5.Rxg5 f2 6.Qd3+ g6 >>> -+ (-3.03) Depth: 15/38 00:10:17 576496kN >>> >>>(W, 15.08.2001)
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