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Subject: Re: ASCI White vs. Deep Blue

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 11:24:29 09/25/01

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On September 25, 2001 at 06:26:33, Slater Wold wrote:

>On September 24, 2001 at 21:46:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On September 24, 2001 at 00:46:35, Slater Wold wrote:
>>
>>>*Perhaps* when I sell my 2x1.7Ghz Intel, I will invest in an Alpha.  That should
>>>be interesting!
>>
>>dual alpha 833Mhz 21264, standard edition: $20000.00
>
>Looking around, I've seen some *reasonibly* priced used AlphaServers.

buying a second hand alpha 21164is not a  good plan.

For diep at least. For diep a second hand 21164 at 633Mhz , if those
are secondhand available anyway, it's performing like a 380Mhz PII for DIEP.

>It was just a thought!
>
>>
>>$20k and don't expect you can ever upgrade it to a faster Mhz those
>>cpu's, whereas you sure can update your intels and amds to some extend.
>>
>>It's impossible to clock those alpha's higher than 1Ghz.
>>
>>Alpha died btw. It's called intel now. IA64 is going to be the future
>>for 64 bits land. Poor 64 bitters...
>>
>>>One question:  Obviously a node on an Alpha is not equal to a node on a x86
>>>system.  Mind sharing why?  Or giving me some references to read up on.  I've
>>>only been around a few Alpha machines, and that was pretty recently.  And they
>>>were all running Windows!
>>
>>Tim Mann noted, perhaps he can explain that here again as i might have
>>misunderstood, that the alpha duals are not factor 2.0 HARDWARE speedup
>>like intel, AMD is. those 64 bits cpus suffer somehow from being put in dual.
>>
>>Don't ask me why.
>>
>>I'm no expert on buses, but i heart
>>the P4 has a wider bus than the P3. It didn't speed DIEP up a bit AFAIK.
>>A single read from RDRAM is 128 bytes wide. that's 1024 bits btw.
>>
>>That 256 bits wide bus from alpha, that's just 32 bytes?
>>
>>Note DDR ram is 64 bytes at once AFAIK. That's 512 bits. latency 1.5 times
>>faster than that from RDRAM though.
>>
>>>Thanks Bob!
>>
>>>Slate
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Slate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Don't just assume that 375mhz is bad.  The PPC is _not_ a bad machine. I
>>>>>>have run on SP's...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Still probably optimistic number of nodes a second.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So at 8192 processors, from which you can perhaps use a 1000 at a time,
>>>>>>>I would get 15M nodes a second.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Now that looks great, but that's of course on a CLUSTER. Speedup perhaps
>>>>>>>10%. 1.5M nodes a second effectively, but the bigger the depth the less
>>>>>>>the speedup gets as the branching factor will be worse, unless i accept
>>>>>>>that the thing first slows down at each processor (which is a likely
>>>>>>>approach) and pray that the latency is more than fast at this thing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So you sure outsearch deep blue by many plies, but not if a new deep
>>>>>>>blue would be pressed on a chip using nullmove and DDR-RAM at it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>So you are not faster in NPS, but search improvements would let it
>>>>>>>search deeper. that still wouldn't make my DIEP faster on this machine
>>>>>>>than DB was in nodes a second.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Of course DBs focus upon only getting the maximum number of NPS (that's
>>>>>>>how they advertised the thing. search depths have no commercial value)
>>>>>>>sure made it faster than what i would get on this machine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is this really so for those in the know with hardware and these types of
>>>>>>>>machines?



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