Author: John Merlino
Date: 14:50:12 10/16/01
Go up one level in this thread
On October 16, 2001 at 16:02:42, Uri Blass wrote: >On October 16, 2001 at 14:24:00, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On October 16, 2001 at 11:13:38, John Merlino wrote: >> >>>On October 16, 2001 at 07:58:15, Steffen Jakob wrote: >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> >>>>this is a position from a blitz game Hossa - Sjeng: >>>> >>>>[D]7k/4QP2/7p/6rP/8/1K6/6r1/8 b >>>> >>>>For a human it's obvious that this is a draw. Hossa was rather clueless and >>>>thought that white was winning. Are there any engines which show a draw value at >>>>once (without significant search depth)? >>>> >>>>Greetings, >>>>Steffen. >>> >>>Chessmaster 8000 sees the draw in less than a second: >>> >>>Time Depth Score Positions Moves >>>0:00 1/3 1.18 7319 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 >>>0:00 2/4 0.95 23824 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 >>>0:00 3/5 0.00 45109 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 R1g2+ 13. Ke3 >>>0:01 4/6 0.00 110883 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 R1g2+ 13. Ke3 >>>0:02 5/7 0.00 246089 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 R1g2+ 13. Ke3 >>>0:04 6/8 0.00 498686 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 R1g2+ 13. Ke3 >>>0:08 7/9 0.00 1039196 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 R1g2+ 13. Ke3 >>>0:16 8/10 0.00 2092486 1...R2g3+ 2. Kc2 Rg2+ 3. Kd3 R2g3+ >>> 4. Kc4 R3g4+ 5. Kc3 Rg3+ 6. Kb2 >>> Rg2+ 7. Kc1 Rg1+ 8. Kd2 R1g2+ 9. >>> Ke3 R2g3+ 10. Ke2 Rg2+ 11. Kf1 >>> Rg1+ 12. Kf2 R1g2+ 13. Ke3 >>> >>>jm >> >> >>It isn't seeing "the draw". It is seeing "a draw". > > > >I do not know >The score is positive at depth 2/4 when the main line is 22 plies >so it can see advantage for white and only later changes it's opinion to draw >score. > > "the draw" is way deep >>here. "the draw" is probably beyond 40 plies deep. > >It is possible that it can see 40 plies at depth 3/5 or bigger depthes >45109 positions may be enough if you search the right lines. > >I do not know. > >Uri The X/Y depth variables are defined as: X = depth of brute force search Y = MINIMUM depth of "nominal search" (as Johan calls it). Basically, this is the depth of the shortest extension. jm
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