Author: Mark Young
Date: 06:24:32 11/08/01
Go up one level in this thread
On November 08, 2001 at 09:16:45, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >On November 08, 2001 at 09:09:56, Mark Young wrote: > >>On November 08, 2001 at 09:00:15, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >> >>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:55:40, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:49:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >>>> >>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:32:02, Mark Young wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 07:54:59, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 06:59:22, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 06:35:18, Jonas Cohonas wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Can anyone here beat the "best" prog in 40/120 without using anti comp >>>>>>>>>strtegies? on atleast an Athlon 1000? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have seen a lot of post where people draw the comps when trying to do nothing >>>>>>>>>but that, but i am yet to see someone not using anti comp strategies beat them >>>>>>>>>in a 40/120 on fast hardware..... anyone up for the challenge? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>What's the point of not playing anticomputer strategies? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>-- >>>>>>>>GCP >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The point being: 1. A GM of conciderable strength would not play anti comp. >>>>>> >>>>>>You don't know the history of computers Vs. GM players. This is not correct. >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Chess Meeting 2000 Super"] >>>>>>[Site "Dortmund"] >>>>>>[Date "2000.07.12"] >>>>>>[Round "5"] >>>>>>[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"] >>>>>>[Black "Junior 6"] >>>>>>[Result "1-0"] >>>>>>[ECO "D00"] >>>>>>[WhiteElo "2770"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "65"] >>>>>>[EventDate "2000.07.07"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. d4 d5 2. e3 Nf6 3. Bd3 e6 4. f4 Be7 5. Nf3 c5 6. c3 O-O 7. Nbd2 Ng4 8. Qe2 >>>>>>c4 9. Bc2 f5 10. Rg1 Nc6 11. h3 Nf6 12. g4 Ne4 13. Qg2 g6 14. Qh2 Kh8 15. h4 >>>>>>Nxd2 16. Bxd2 fxg4 17. Ng5 Qe8 18. h5 gxh5 19. Rxg4 Rf6 20. Rh4 Rh6 21. O-O-O >>>>>>a5 22. Rh1 b5 23. Bd1 Ra7 24. Bxh5 Qf8 25. e4 Bd8 26. f5 b4 27. Bg6 Rxh4 28. >>>>>>Qxh4 bxc3 29. bxc3 Bf6 30. Qxh7+ Rxh7 31. Rxh7+ Kg8 32. Bf7+ Qxf7 33. Rxf7 1-0 >>>>> >>>>>My dad tought me 4 years ago that the stonewall (in this case transposed) was >>>>>the way to beat comps, cause he had used this line to beat comps since the >>>>>70's!! >>>>>> >>>>>>[Event "Chess Meeting 2000 Super"] >>>>>>[Site "Dortmund"] >>>>>>[Date "2000.07.15"] >>>>>>[Round "8"] >>>>>>[White "Junior 6"] >>>>>>[Black "Piket, Jeroen"] >>>>>>[Result "0-1"] >>>>>>[ECO "B15"] >>>>>>[BlackElo "2649"] >>>>>>[PlyCount "68"] >>>>>>[EventDate "2000.07.07"] >>>>>> >>>>>>1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 5. h3 a6 6. Bf4 Nf6 7. e5 Nfd7 8. Qd2 e6 >>>>>>9. Bg5 Qb6 10. O-O-O h6 11. Be3 Qc7 12. h4 b5 13. Bf4 Nb6 14. a3 N8d7 15. Kb1 >>>>>>a5 16. Na2 Qa7 17. g4 Bf8 18. c3 Ba6 19. Qe1 Nc4 20. Bd2 Be7 21. Nc1 Ndb6 22. >>>>>>h5 g5 23. Na2 Kd7 24. Bc1 Rhb8 25. Ka1 b4 26. Nd2 Nxd2 27. Bxd2 Bxf1 28. Rxf1 >>>>>>Nc4 29. Rb1 b3 30. Nc1 Bxa3 31. Qd1 Qb6 32. bxa3 b2+ 33. Ka2 bxc1=N+ 34. Qxc1 >>>>>>Qxb1+ 0-1 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>2.If a program has a fault which can be taken advantage of by using anti comp >>>>>>>strategies making it look like a 2000 player there is no point in playing it. >>>>>> >>>>>>You don't know if anti-computer play will work until you try it. ChessTiger did >>>>>>not have any problem with anti-computer play...that resulted in a loss when it >>>>>>scored a TPR of 2788. >>>>> >>>>>My point was not: see if you can find new anti comp stretegies, my point was: >>>>>can anyone beat a prog (top 5) when not using anti comp, meaning: playing it >>>>>like any other opponent! >>>>> >>>>>>>just like using the same line to beat the comp to determine it's strength. >>>>>>>3. Is anyone here capable of beating the comp under these conditions?? >>>>>> >>>>>>Anticomputer play should be used if the player wishes. You don't know if >>>>>>anti-computer play will work or not. Besides there are many types of >>>>>>anti-computer play, and it would not be fair to claim or not claim anti-computer >>>>>>play if the human wins. >>>>>> >>>>>I did not say that in general people should not be allowed the use of anti comp >>>>>play. >>>>>I repeat myself: can anyone here beat a top 5 prog without using anti comp >>>>>strategies at 40/120 on fast hardware? >>>> >>>>You could claim anti-computer on any human win....That is the point, but I say >>>>even with anti-computer play no one here is good enough to beat ChessTiger even >>>>with anti-computer play. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>Regards >>>>>Jonas >>> >>>And any human v human win could be concidered anti human too, don't you see the >>>difference between playing the board and playing the man? >> >>You are asking a question for which we already know the answer. There is no one >>here good enough to beat a top program under your conditions. It seems if you >>are not in the top 100 best chess players in the world you don't stand a chance >>beating a top program in a match without using anti-computer play. >> >>Even with anti-computer play and a top 100 GM player you still may not win, as >>GM Huebner found out. >>> >>>Regards >>>Jonas > >I am not trying to find an answer i already know, i would love to see someone >here pull it off so to speak. No one will, and no one will take up the challenge.... > >Regards >Jonas
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