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Subject: Re: Can anyone here beat the "best" prog in 40/120....No not in a match.

Author: Mark Young

Date: 06:24:32 11/08/01

Go up one level in this thread


On November 08, 2001 at 09:16:45, Jonas Cohonas wrote:

>On November 08, 2001 at 09:09:56, Mark Young wrote:
>
>>On November 08, 2001 at 09:00:15, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>
>>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:55:40, Mark Young wrote:
>>>
>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:49:13, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 08:32:02, Mark Young wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 07:54:59, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 06:59:22, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On November 08, 2001 at 06:35:18, Jonas Cohonas wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Can anyone here beat the "best" prog in 40/120 without using anti comp
>>>>>>>>>strtegies? on atleast an Athlon 1000?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have seen a lot of post where people draw the comps when trying to do nothing
>>>>>>>>>but that, but i am yet to see someone not using anti comp strategies beat them
>>>>>>>>>in a 40/120 on fast hardware..... anyone up for the challenge?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What's the point of not playing anticomputer strategies?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>--
>>>>>>>>GCP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The point being: 1. A GM of conciderable strength would not play anti comp.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You don't know the history of computers Vs. GM players. This is not correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Event "Chess Meeting 2000 Super"]
>>>>>>[Site "Dortmund"]
>>>>>>[Date "2000.07.12"]
>>>>>>[Round "5"]
>>>>>>[White "Kramnik, Vladimir"]
>>>>>>[Black "Junior 6"]
>>>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>>>[ECO "D00"]
>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2770"]
>>>>>>[PlyCount "65"]
>>>>>>[EventDate "2000.07.07"]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. d4 d5 2. e3 Nf6 3. Bd3 e6 4. f4 Be7 5. Nf3 c5 6. c3 O-O 7. Nbd2 Ng4 8. Qe2
>>>>>>c4 9. Bc2 f5 10. Rg1 Nc6 11. h3 Nf6 12. g4 Ne4 13. Qg2 g6 14. Qh2 Kh8 15. h4
>>>>>>Nxd2 16. Bxd2 fxg4 17. Ng5 Qe8 18. h5 gxh5 19. Rxg4 Rf6 20. Rh4 Rh6 21. O-O-O
>>>>>>a5 22. Rh1 b5 23. Bd1 Ra7 24. Bxh5 Qf8 25. e4 Bd8 26. f5 b4 27. Bg6 Rxh4 28.
>>>>>>Qxh4 bxc3 29. bxc3 Bf6 30. Qxh7+ Rxh7 31. Rxh7+ Kg8 32. Bf7+ Qxf7 33. Rxf7 1-0
>>>>>
>>>>>My dad tought me 4 years ago that the stonewall (in this case transposed) was
>>>>>the way to beat comps, cause he had used this line to beat comps since the
>>>>>70's!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Event "Chess Meeting 2000 Super"]
>>>>>>[Site "Dortmund"]
>>>>>>[Date "2000.07.15"]
>>>>>>[Round "8"]
>>>>>>[White "Junior 6"]
>>>>>>[Black "Piket, Jeroen"]
>>>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>>>[ECO "B15"]
>>>>>>[BlackElo "2649"]
>>>>>>[PlyCount "68"]
>>>>>>[EventDate "2000.07.07"]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. e4 g6 2. d4 Bg7 3. Nc3 c6 4. Nf3 d5 5. h3 a6 6. Bf4 Nf6 7. e5 Nfd7 8. Qd2 e6
>>>>>>9. Bg5 Qb6 10. O-O-O h6 11. Be3 Qc7 12. h4 b5 13. Bf4 Nb6 14. a3 N8d7 15. Kb1
>>>>>>a5 16. Na2 Qa7 17. g4 Bf8 18. c3 Ba6 19. Qe1 Nc4 20. Bd2 Be7 21. Nc1 Ndb6 22.
>>>>>>h5 g5 23. Na2 Kd7 24. Bc1 Rhb8 25. Ka1 b4 26. Nd2 Nxd2 27. Bxd2 Bxf1 28. Rxf1
>>>>>>Nc4 29. Rb1 b3 30. Nc1 Bxa3 31. Qd1 Qb6 32. bxa3 b2+ 33. Ka2 bxc1=N+ 34. Qxc1
>>>>>>Qxb1+ 0-1
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>2.If a program has a fault which can be taken advantage of by using anti comp
>>>>>>>strategies making it look like a 2000 player there is no point in playing it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You don't know if anti-computer play will work until you try it. ChessTiger did
>>>>>>not have any problem with anti-computer play...that resulted in a loss when it
>>>>>>scored a TPR of 2788.
>>>>>
>>>>>My point was not: see if you can find new anti comp stretegies, my point was:
>>>>>can anyone beat a prog (top 5) when not using anti comp, meaning: playing it
>>>>>like any other opponent!
>>>>>
>>>>>>>just like using the same line to beat the comp to determine it's strength.
>>>>>>>3. Is anyone here capable of beating the comp under these conditions??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Anticomputer play should be used if the player wishes. You don't know if
>>>>>>anti-computer play will work or not. Besides there are many types of
>>>>>>anti-computer play, and it would not be fair to claim or not claim anti-computer
>>>>>>play if the human wins.
>>>>>>
>>>>>I did not say that in general people should not be allowed the use of anti comp
>>>>>play.
>>>>>I repeat myself: can anyone here beat a top 5 prog without using anti comp
>>>>>strategies at 40/120 on fast hardware?
>>>>
>>>>You could claim anti-computer on any human win....That is the point, but I say
>>>>even with anti-computer play no one here is good enough to beat ChessTiger even
>>>>with anti-computer play.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards
>>>>>Jonas
>>>
>>>And any human v human win could be concidered anti human too, don't you see the
>>>difference between playing the board and playing the man?
>>
>>You are asking a question for which we already know the answer. There is no one
>>here good enough to beat a top program under your conditions. It seems if you
>>are not in the top 100 best chess players in the world you don't stand a chance
>>beating a top program in a match without using anti-computer play.
>>
>>Even with anti-computer play and a top 100 GM player you still may not win, as
>>GM Huebner found out.
>>>
>>>Regards
>>>Jonas
>
>I am not trying to find an answer i already know, i would love to see someone
>here pull it off so to speak.

No one will, and no one will take up the challenge....

>
>Regards
>Jonas



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