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Subject: Re: Pawn Hash Collisions in Crafty

Author: Sune Fischer

Date: 14:18:44 12/05/01

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On December 05, 2001 at 17:04:36, David Rasmussen wrote:

>On December 05, 2001 at 16:41:22, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>>>>
>>>>>We need Bob or some other third party to make tests too I think.
>>>>
>>>>I have already done this.  In fact, anyone that _doesn't_ do this is inviting
>>>>great grief.  It is essential that the hashed information match _exactly_ the
>>>>computed information for every position.  And I do this as part of my debugging
>>>>from time to time, which will often catch a bug where I forget to stick
>>>>something in the pawn hash record, but I use it later anyway.
>>>
>>>I agree, I am doing the same thing with Chezzz. Among a _lot_ of other debugging
>>>checks as well. Chezzz has roughly the same amount of collisions as Crafty, if I
>>>use 32-bit pawn hashkeys instead of 64-bit ones.
>>>
>>>/David
>>
>>I agree, but just because the hashed information doesn't match exactly the
>>computed information doesn't mean you have a collision, it _could_ be something
>>else. You are debugging a lot of stuff by doing this, any number of things could
>>be the cause.
>>
>>Collisions are much easier to detect directly using the 64 bit key for a
>>reference.
>>
>
>Not at all. I am _not_ debugging a lot of stuff by doing this. What "something
>else" would that be? I'm afraid you don't understand how it works then. If it
>reassures you, Bob does the same thing to check for collisions. We don't find
>_all_ collisions, as some positions just might happen to have the same score and
>properties in Crafty as some other position that has the same hashkey. But when
>we find a position that has the same pawn hashkey as some other position (as I
>have done), there is by definition a collision.
>
>/David

I got the impression he was using it for general debugging.
It is a somewhat indirect way of testing for collisions, why not use a more
direct approach?

Besides, if both Bruce and Robert are using 32 bit keys I believe it is sound
(ie. not producing many collisions).

-S.



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