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Subject: Re: "You are correct... " Thanks!

Author: Dan Newman

Date: 17:39:30 12/06/01

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On December 06, 2001 at 10:49:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On December 06, 2001 at 04:57:03, David Rasmussen wrote:
>
>>On December 06, 2001 at 00:20:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>I ran the test and you are absolutely correct.  32 bit pawn hash keys
>>>are not usable.  I am not sure when I went to this, but I did look back
>>>thru my test results in my file at the office, and the last time I did any
>>>hash sanity testing was when I did use 64 bits.  Since I made the change to
>>>32 I apparently didn't test well enough.
>>>
>>>It is a trivial change to fix, and Crafty is now back to 64 bit signatures.
>>>
>>>Glad you took the time to test and kept the idea "alive".  You were
>>>certainly correct about the number of collisions...  and it has to be
>>>unacceptable.
>>
>>Thanks! Finally... I was beginning to think I was insane or that my computer had
>>faulty RAM or something :)
>>
>>We agree then. Do you think 48 bits could do it? Probably. But it's not worth
>>the effort, now that you (and I) already have a 64-bit type. The PawnHashTable
>>doesn't need to be "big" anyway.
>>
>>You are saying that Bruce uses 32-bit keys. Is this true? He has the problem
>>too, then.
>>
>>/David
>
>
>I am not sure.  I _think_ he said he was using three 32 bit hash values.  One
>to store in the real hash table, one to index the real hash table, and one
>(pawns only) for pawn hashing.  But I might well have not remembered correctly
>here.  My only question right now is how I chose to go to 32 bits without
>checking it properly.  It shows up too easily.  Which suggests that I simply
>"did it" after someone reported that it worked for them.  And that is not
>something I usually do.
>
>Which leaves a mystery.  why would I go to 32 bits without testing?  Or did I
>simply use a broken test?
>
>No idea...

Just to throw some more confusion into this discusion, I decided to run
the 32-bit test on my program (Shrike).  I currently use a 32-bit key and
a separate (usually 18-bit) index for an effective hash code of 50 bits.
I didn't get collisions with 50 bits--though my tests have only run a few
minutes.  When I trimed the key down to 14 bits for an effective hash code
of 32-bits I got 62 collisions out of 66 million probes, which seems quite
a bit lower than the 300 out of 10,000 figure quoted elsewhere...

I think that rate might still be unacceptable because it tended to produce
a few large bursts (less than a second in duration) which might increase
the probablility of a misevaluation changing the selected root move (just
an intuition).  None of the results for the test suite I was doing this on
changed though.

I suspect, if you are getting a really high collision rate, that there
might well be something rotten in the "random" number table...

-Dan.



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