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Subject: Re: Any idea's on how long it takes to learn C++, then create a chessmonster

Author: David Rasmussen

Date: 11:53:01 12/11/01

Go up one level in this thread


On December 11, 2001 at 13:42:56, David Hanley wrote:

>On December 11, 2001 at 12:56:50, David Rasmussen wrote:
>
>>On December 11, 2001 at 11:47:19, David Hanley wrote:
>>
>
>>>Yes.  C++ is assembler with objects.
>>
>>Not at all. Templates and generic programming alone is a revolution, that is
>>unique to C++,
>
>No, both were around long before C++, and i'd even say that the c++
>implementations of them are quite poor.
>

Not true. The idea of generic programming is in certain aspects "old", but the
device of a template and the way it is used in C++ is unique. Tell me where all
the ways templates are used, exemplified in the STL, is from, if not C++.

>
>>
>>>I've been on many commercial projects using
>>>C/C++ and i'm aware of what happens.  A lot of time ends up getting spent on
>>>things like finding corrupt pointers, trying to figure out who deallocates what,
>>>etc.
>>>
>>
>>With bad programming, all languages can fail.
>
>Of course.  But c++ encourages bad programming.
>

Not moreso than other languages. I have seen as much bad code in SML and Lisp as
I have in C++.

>>But I agree that minute details
>>can sometimes take up a lot of the development time. Still, it is not an
>>inherent feature of C++. One can always encapsulate data in very safe types
>>(smart pointers, bounds checking simple types etc.).
>
>But when you do that, you get a slower, more bloated version of the superior
>languages.  No point.
>

There are no superior languages. There are different languages for different
tasks. I'm not trying to make the point here, that C++ is better than other
languages (as you seem to try to do with other languages). I am saying that,
sure, if you have a sloppy approach, SML will get you a prototype faster than
C++ will. But you can get s good program with as good a design in C++ as in any
other language, if you just use the language correctly. And of course, you will
get all the advantages of C++ if you do so. Just as if you do it in SML, you
will have certain other advantages. I am not saying C++ is better. You are
saying C++ is worse. I say it isn't.

>>
>>>built in to help keep programs bug free.  Things like garbage collection alone
>>>buy you quite a bit.
>>>
>>
>>Sure, but the GC is not important for chess programs, usually. There is seldom a
>>lot of memory allocation going on.
>
>True.  I am talking abotu programming in general though, and there's a lot
>besides GC.  Still, it makes the user interface easier.
>

The user interface?

GC is not inherently better. GC has some advantages and some drawbacks.

>>
>>Maybe you're not listenling hard enough. Either way, you don't really know
>>anything about how much I now about various languages.
>
>Well, i do, seeing as you're making misstatements about them.
>

I haven't made any "misstatements" about any languages. I have disagreed with
you on certain points, and as you have done the same with me, you have made as
many "misstatements" as I have.

/David



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