Author: Christophe Theron
Date: 20:05:14 12/27/01
Go up one level in this thread
On December 27, 2001 at 21:05:01, Martin Giepmans wrote:
>On December 27, 2001 at 18:53:04, Christophe Theron wrote:
>
>>On December 27, 2001 at 13:35:00, Martin Giepmans wrote:
>>
>>>On December 27, 2001 at 12:46:39, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>>
>>>>On December 27, 2001 at 12:07:35, Martin Giepmans wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On December 27, 2001 at 08:43:35, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On December 27, 2001 at 08:15:08, K. Burcham wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I guess that you missed the following post about spidderchess that needed less
>>>>>>>than 1 second
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>http://www.icdchess.com/forums/1/message.shtml?203638
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Uri, did you believe this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>it has to be either for the wrong reason, or the program was run after
>>>>>>>position learning. we know for the necessary calculations, this position
>>>>>>>cannot be determined in one second.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe you know it
>>>>>>I do not know it and I believe the programmer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe that it is not impossible to do it and
>>>>>>the fact that other programs are not close to do it
>>>>>>means nothing.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It is possible that spidderchess use different search rules
>>>>>>than other programs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I also plan to use different search rules
>>>>>>that are going to help my program to solve it faster but
>>>>>>I need to compare them with the known search rules
>>>>>>also in other positions before deciding if
>>>>>>it is a good idea to use them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Uri
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It's indeed true that SpiderChess uses different searchrules.
>>>>>I try to simulate the human chessplayer. I try ...
>>>>>And in this position it works! Now all those other positions :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes from looking at the PV and the nominal search depth it looks like
>>>>SpiderChess does not stop at the nominal depth. For example IIRC at ply depth 5,
>>>>the PV was 13 plies long (not ending with captures or checks).
>>>>
>>>>Or maybe ply depth 5 means that the first 5 plies are looked at in "brute force"
>>>>mode, and the next plies with a selective search? That's how Genius displays its
>>>>depth, so SpiderChess depth cannot be compared with other programs depths?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Christophe
>>>
>>>
>>>Hi Christophe,
>>>
>>>What you see beyond the nominal depth are extensions. There is some
>>>selectivity before that but not much. The program doesn't use nullmove.
>>>Extensions may go very deep along narrow, more or less human paths, so if the
>>>program says "depth = 6" you cannot really trust that.
>>>But it's probably not the same as Genius.
>>>
>>>Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>When you say "extension", does it mean the kind of extension everybody does on
>>recapture or check (not counting the move in the ply count), or do you mean a
>>different kind of extensions, something like "I have reached my horizon but this
>>position is not quiet at all, so I do not stop here"?
>>
>>
>>
>> Christophe
>
>
>Both, but there is still a lot of work to do on extensions of the
>second type (don't stop unless the position seems quiet).
>The detection of "quietness" that I use now is rather unsophisticated.
>It's also slow, very very slow.
>Because of this the program mainly relies on extensions of the first type
>(not counting the move in the ply count).
>This may change in the future ...
>
>Martin
Yes, "extensions" of the second type are really tricky, and I don't know of any
program getting a significant increase in playing strength from them.
Christophe
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