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Subject: Re: About limiting Qsearch, again...

Author: Antonio Dieguez

Date: 11:46:27 12/29/01

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On December 29, 2001 at 14:20:18, Severi Salminen wrote:

>Hi!
>
>I made a run with Requiem on position (1.e4 e5 2.d4 d5)
>
>[d] rnbqkbnr/ppp2ppp/8/3pp3/3PP3/8/PPP2PPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1
>
>I let the engine increment a counter every time it called qsearch() at certain
>depth. The numbers include only 10 ply search, not previous iterations. I want
>to emphasize that this "experiment" only applies to this particular (allthough
>quite typical) position. This was the output (the interesting part is at the
>end):
>
>Requiem v0.50, Copyright (C) 2001 Severi Salminen
>All rights reserved.
>
>rnbqkbnr
>ppp..ppp
>........
>...pp...
>...PP...
>........
>PPP..PPP
>RNBQKBNR
>
>CW: 129 CB: 129 EP: 0
>
> Time  Depth  Score     Nodes PV
> 0.00    1     0.00         8 dxe5
> 0.00    1     0.03        30 h3
> 0.00    1     0.06        48 g3
> 0.00    1     0.07       100 Nf3
> 0.00    1     0.12       121 Be2
> 0.00   (1)               144
> 0.00    2     0.03       307 Be2 Be7
> 0.00    2     0.05      1060 Bb5+ Bd7 Nc3
> 0.00   (2)              1299
> 0.00    3     0.05      2544 Bb5+ c6 Be2 Nf6
> 0.06    3     0.14      4113 dxe5 dxe4 Bc4
> 0.06   (3)              4519
> 0.06    4     0.15      5974 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Be2
> 0.11   (4)              9590
> 0.16    5     0.11     14031 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Bc4 Bb4+ Bd2
> 0.38   (5)             28645
> 0.49    6     0.17     39164 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Bc4 Nc6 Bxf7
> 0.82   (6)             62199
> 1.21    7     0.17     91852 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Nc3 Bb4 Bg5+ f6 Rd1+ Bd7
> 2.97   (7)            213308
> 4.61    8     0.21    335261 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Bc4 Nc6 Bf4 Nh6 Bxh6
> 8.68   (8)            660117
>13.62    9     0.24   1075397 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Bg5+ f6 exf6 gxf6 Bd2 Be6 Bb5
>27.02   (9)           2055337
>41.08    10     0.36   3179248 dxe5 dxe4 Qxd8+ Kxd8 Nc3 Nc6 Bg5+ Ke8 Bb5 h6
>Bxc6+ bxc6 Be3
>68.27   (10)           5121547
>
>Eval:  0.36, time: 68.27, nps: 75019
>Nodes: 5121547, (qnodes: 3506216, leaves: 2790857)
>Futile moves: 2783942, ordering: 96.2%
>
>Ply: 8, count: 258910
>Ply: 9, count: 453813
>Ply: 10, count: 345434
>Ply: 11, count: 281178
>Ply: 12, count: 246945
>Ply: 13, count: 176222
>Ply: 14, count: 77837
>Ply: 15, count: 32984
>Ply: 16, count: 11041
>Ply: 17, count: 3329
>Ply: 18, count: 1219
>Ply: 19, count: 399
>Ply: 20, count: 105
>Ply: 21, count: 39
>Ply: 22, count: 7
>Ply: 23, count: 3
>Ply: 24, count: 1
>
>Total: 1889466 (manually counted)
>
>What can be seen, is that 97.4% of qnodes remain below ply 14 (0=root). The
>reason for qnodes at ply=8 and ply=9 is of course null moves. So performance
>wise you won't get much by limiting qsearch depth. On the other hand by limiting
>qsearch and returning static score would have allways resulted totally wrong
>score. I don't know if that would have affected PV or something else but there
>is a great risk. This was with SEE, I don't know how SEEless engine would do,
>probably the distribution would be wider and longer.
>
>I made a few games between version with limiting and one without. Limiting to 1
>and 2 resulted horrible tactical mistakes. At 3 the "handicapped" version played
>more securely but lost. It would have definitely played worse without SEE
>because SEE still gives you allmost accurate scores for every capture (pins, for
>example, will affect this) even if you don't actually search them: with SEE you
>can prune seemingly losing captures easily.

hello!

After 1.e3 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6

in the qsearch, the expected material gain for Bxc6 is not at least a pawn?
and if the d7 pawn doesn't exist, do you prune Nxe5?

thanks.



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