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Subject: Re: Computer Chess is pointless

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 08:41:40 01/07/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 07, 2002 at 09:18:28, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On January 07, 2002 at 05:56:55, Bas Hamstra wrote:
>
>>>I think there can be many factors for chess contests.  You can have open
>>>hardware, or fixed hardware.  On open hardware, you can equalize the time.
>>>
>>>It depends on what you are trying to determine.  For instance, do you want to
>>>know what the strongest combination of hardware + software is?
>>
>>In fact when I think about it, I can't see the point of this. IMO if you would
>>ask all programmers what they think is more important a) the competition aspect
>>or b) determining what is the strongest "chess entity" 99% would vote for a.
>>
>>>OK, now let's think of equal platform.
>>>
>>>Joe writes a program for the Mac.
>>>Sam writes a program for Linux on Mips
>>>Sally writes a program for OS/2
>>>Jill writes a program for Alpha on NT
>>>Larry writes a program for Win32 on Intel
>>>Fred writes a program specially optimized to use AMD's registers
>>>
>>>"Just say everyone must use Windows" simply disallows the Mac programs (which
>>>are popular) and even the Linux programs. Similarly for everyone must use the
>>>same hardware. So that any decision you make necessarily will hurt *someone*
>>>in whether they can perform or not, or at least infringe upon their ability to
>>>perform.
>>
>>I have seen these arguments, but they absolutely don't convince me. This kind of
>>hurting is *nothing* compared to the hurting that is currently going on, where
>>someone on a P3-700 has to compete with a fast quad machine in a tournament.
>>
>>>I think (however) that equal hardware events can be very interesting.  You
>>>could use the results of the SPEC benchmarks to normalize for any tested
>>>machines, and then give time slices which allow for the differences.
>>>I don't know of any communication protocol which allows that sort of time
>>>control yet, but it should not be impossible to create it.  You can (of course)
>>>manually step through a move at a time (like the KKUP and KKUP2 contests) but
>>>that would be far too tedious for normal game speeds.
>>
>>Possible, but complicated. A good compromise is IMO what they do in Paderborn:
>>the organization aranges all hardware, and you can for instance chose P3-700
>>single or P3-700 double for your program. Nothing is perfect, but pretty fair I
>>would say!
>>
>>For tournaments in which we have to bring our own hardware we are in a vicious
>>circle. Since everybody is bringing the fastest hardware on the market, I have
>>to too. Why not end that, and set a speed limit. Everybody can arrange an old
>>laptop, very convenient, and we could compete in fairness forever.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Bas.
>
>
>
>I support this idea totally, but I know that other programmers are afraid of
>competing with equal weapons.
>
>Personally I would be very glad to enter an uniform platform tournament. But
>this is something that we talk about since a long time and it never happens (at
>least no World title has ever been played under these conditions, and I'm pretty
>sure it will never happen).
>
>
>
>    Christophe

this is why icca still exists.





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