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Subject: Re: [MODERATION] Djenghis in cct4

Author: Miguel A. Ballicora

Date: 17:09:11 01/15/02

Go up one level in this thread


On January 15, 2002 at 16:23:32, Slater Wold wrote:

>On January 15, 2002 at 15:46:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On January 15, 2002 at 15:15:55, Bruce Moreland wrote:
>>
>>>On January 15, 2002 at 03:57:15, Ed Schröder wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 14, 2002 at 19:17:02, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hello ,
>>>>>
>>>>>i see bookbuilder in cct4. that is an interface made by
>>>>>Bas Hamstra sold to J.E.F. Kaan (who can't program at all)
>>>>>and with crafty added sold as 'bookbuilder'.
>>>>>
>>>>>Now i see Jan Kaan join CCT4 with bookbuilder under the name 'djenghis 0.05'.
>>>>>
>>>>>He is mentioned as 'author' from Djenghis.
>>>>>
>>>>>This is not correct.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Vincent,
>>>>
>>>>You impossibly can provide the evidence of your accusation, I suggest you move
>>>>your suspect to the Tournament Director of CCT4, that is where it belongs.
>>>>
>>>>The moderators of CCC are not going to allow you to discredit the name of Mr.
>>>>Kaan based on wild speculations. So it's either provide the evidence or stop
>>>>now.
>>>>
>>>>Kindest regards,
>>>>
>>>>Ed Schroder
>>>>CCC moderator
>>>
>>>With respect, I disagree with this.  The factual accuracy of what someone is
>>>saying shouldn't be an issue.  The moderators should not be a court of law that
>>>determined whether what someone says is true or false.
>>>
>>>"Put up or shut up" should be something the members say, not something the
>>>moderators say.  The club that the moderators wield is too heavy in this case.
>>>
>>>As a group, we need to be able to speak freely about issues that are important
>>>to us.  Sometimes, this might involve very contentious speech, which Vincent
>>>seems to specialize in.
>>>
>>>I think that the charter is designed to protect us from stalkers and people who
>>>can't stay within the bounds of civility.  It's not designed to prevent us from
>>>getting into arguments, disagreeing, or even accusing each other of things.
>>>
>>>I suggest that if Vincent makes a campaign out of this, it should go.  If
>>>someone is going to post the same thing every few days, they are obviously using
>>>the forum as a vehicle for personal attack -- that's what a campaign is.  I
>>>don't see that happening here.
>>>
>>>If someone wants to say something nasty, I think they should go for it.  I think
>>>that the charter protects us from people would would follow us around sniping at
>>>us, like the stuff that is happening in the other forum, but if someone is
>>>displeased with someone, that's a valid topic.
>>>
>>>bruce
>>
>>I disagree
>>We got a moderator email that asked to delete all the thread
>>
>>I thought to do it but it was not a clear case that I was sure to do it so
>>I decided to discuss it with Ed and the decision was not to delete it.
>>but to give Vincent a warning.
>>
>>My opinion is that people should not accuse each other by "facts" that they
>>cannot prove and the question if the "facts" are right or wrong
>>is not important.
>
>I wonder who asked you to delete this thread?!  (sarcasm)  I bet it wasn't more
>than 1 person, and that being, the person who was named.
>
>Example:
>
>"I think Deep Fritz is a horrible program.  I think Frans and Mathias are
>horrible programmers."
>
>If I posted that, and Frans asked you to delete it, would you?  I would hope
>not.  That is what this forum is about.
>
>If anyone in this forum cares about what I think, someone will post a reply,
>"Why?" If I don't respond, then obviously I am just trolling.  And perhaps then
>the post should be deleted.  However, if I replied,
>
>"Deep Fritz's SMP does not work in ANY of the 3 computers I have tested.  Of the
>6+ people I know who have SMP machines, it does not work.  They have sold a
>commercial program, under the pretense that it gains 80% with an extra CPU.  I
>can show time and time again where Deep Fritz fails to achieve this.  We have
>recieved no patches, and there has been no attempt to fix this."
>
>Then I wouldn't be trolling, I would be defending my statement.  It's like Bruce
>told me a long time ago, "..let the people of the forum weed out the trolls.
>Let the people of the forum decide who they are and aren't going to listen to.."
>
>This is a poll about ideas, and consquently, opinions.  Don't try to moderate
>that.
>
>Let Mr. Kaan defend himself.  If he cannot, well then, Vince is in the right.
 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That is the whole point, he DOES NOT HAVE to defend himself, and I would not
have done it. You have to defend yourself when you are accused with FACTS.
Saying the Mr. Kaan cannot program is not a fact, it is an insult.
Why do I care? because this is the typical behavior and language that you
see in dictatorships "If you are innocent, you do not have to worry".

Mr. Kann send the code. I assume the program is legitimate, Is the accuser
going to apologize?

Miguel






>If he does, well, maybe people will stop listening to Vince.




>
>
>
>Slate



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