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Subject: Re: Question about Bit storage

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 05:32:40 01/30/02

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On January 29, 2002 at 14:29:09, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On January 29, 2002 at 14:03:24, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 29, 2002 at 10:47:40, Les Fernandez wrote:
>>
>>>On January 29, 2002 at 09:57:30, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On January 28, 2002 at 17:48:48, Les Fernandez wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Just curious to know what is the best being done now for storing a chess
>>>>>position.  In the worse case scenario (castling right exists) it takes me 162
>>>>>bits to store 32 pieces, color, location, side to move, castling, enpassant,
>>>>>promotion, ce and pv.  Now if castling rights do not exist then the worse case
>>>>>scenario for the above is 81 bits.  Much further reduction in bits/position is
>>>>>possible but at the moment I am interested in the above.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>>Les
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>How can you store a complete chess position without castling rights in 81
>>>>bits?  castling rights are certainly not 81 bits of information to get you
>>>>up to 162.
>>>>
>>>>Something is wrong.
>>>
>>>Hi Bob,
>>>
>>>The point is that in cases where castling is not available there exists a
>>>minimum of 4 rotations that can be applied to a board, top-bot and left-right.
>>>The method I discuss to store a position requires 9 bits to store piece, color
>>>and x and y location.  32x9=288 and then 36 bits are needed to store the other
>>>pertinent things about the position.  (288+36)/4=81 bits/position on avg. just
>>>as Uri explained here (thx Uri sorry Bob if I was not clear).  I thought the
>>>scheme I used to store a piece using only 9 bits was different and would
>>>appreciate feedback here.
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>
>>>Les
>>
>>
>>I think your math is wrong.  If you need 288+36 bits to store one position, you
>>need 288+36-2 bits to store 1/4 of that number of positions.  This is log math
>>and you _subtract_ exponents, not divide.
>>
>>ie 2^32 / 4 == 2^30, _not_ 2^8
>>
>>That is where I am getting lost in your description...
>
>What they are doing is, "semantically" speaking, correct. You'll laugh when you
>figure it out. If you don't, don't worry, it doesn't mean they have come with
>anything new other than with the "semantics".

it must be wrong there too as they miss 2^100 bits somewhere :)




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