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Subject: Re: Question about Bit storage

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 13:35:44 01/30/02

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On January 30, 2002 at 15:41:51, Uri Blass wrote:
>On January 30, 2002 at 14:55:16, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>On January 30, 2002 at 05:07:02, Uri Blass wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>and side to move that make 16 "reflections" based on the definition of having
>>>practically the same position(this is not the definition of Les).
>>>
>>>b1 a2 a7 b8 g1 h2 h7 g8 are symmetric when there are no pawns and in all of
>>>these cases you can change the side to move.
>>
>>In the encoding scheme that Les invented, you also *multiply* this by the number
>>of ways the sliding piece can go to the solution square.
>>
>>Suppose that a rook can mate in 12 if he slides to the solution position.  There
>>are up to 13 other squares he can move to the same solution sqare from other
>>than the square that he is sitting on.  So in this case, there are up to 16 * 13
>>= 208 board positions that will all have a mate in (12 or better).
>>
>>Now, Les only saves *one* of these positions [the smallest one lexically].  All
>>of the others can be generated from that one.  Along with all of their key moves
>>and all of their centipawn evaluations.
>>
>>With a queen, it is even more drastic.
>>
>>So that is how he saves space.  Work it out for KQK and see what the savings is.
>
>
>I am not interested in KQK
>
>in KQK I do not need tablebases to win.

The reason I mentioned it, is it is a simple example.  I think most chess
programs can win this one instantly without a tablebase.

>it may be more interesting if it can save significant space in endgames like KQP
>vs KQ when there are a lot of draws
>
>saving one position and saying this is winning so 100 other positions are
>winning is not going to help much here.
>
>I am also not interested in generating all the positions from one positions in
>the set that is the smallest one.
>
>Practically the situation that you have is getting one position that is usually
>not the smallest laxically.

You get some position, form its permutation set, and find the smallest entry
generated.  This is the key.

>I do not understand how do you get practically from this position the winning
>move.

The VB code Les wrote shows how to do it.  Did you look at it?



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