Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: More correct analysis here...

Author: Ed Schröder

Date: 15:08:39 02/01/02

Go up one level in this thread


On February 01, 2002 at 15:10:14, Andrew Dados wrote:

>On February 01, 2002 at 00:28:08, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On January 31, 2002 at 14:04:13, Andrew Dados wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>From their own publication, 'Deep Blue', June 2001
>>>Example of search depths over one position
>>>r1r1q1k1/6p1/3b1p1p/1p1PpP2/1Pp5/2P4P/R1B2QP1/R5K1 w
>>>from DB-Kasparow game 2 from 1997, before move 37
>>>
>>>When chips were set to minimum fullwith 4 plys:
>>>
>>>A.Iteration
>>>B.Minimum software depth
>>>C.Maximum software depth
>>>D.Maximum Estimated combined depth
>>>
>>>A  B  C    D
>>>----------------
>>>6  2  5  11-21
>>>7  3  6  12-22
>>>8  4  11 17-27
>>>9  5  15 21-31
>>>10 6  17 23-33
>>>11 7  20 26-36
>>>12 8  23 29-39
>>>
>>>So iteration is clearly the sum of minimum software depth (B) and hardware depth
>>>(4 plys here).
>>>
>>>-Andrew-
>>
>>
>>
>>OK... but what does this have to do with the current discussion?  DB doesn't
>>report "an iteration number".  It reports things like 10(6) and directly
>>according to Hsu (from the email I posted) 10 is the software depth, and (6)
>>is the hardware depth.  They are _added_ to get the total depth...
>
>Why would they publish a table to depth 12 if they searched till d=18 in real
>game?
>
>Recap:
>
>Arguments for depths of 17-18:
>
>1) Your email from Hsu
>2) DB logs, which show something, like 8(4) line followed by 8(6) line.
>
>Arguments against reaching d=18:
>1) Quotes by David Fotland from Dr Campbell on RGCC as I reposted here.
>
>2) According to their publication avg search speed over DB-Kasparov match was
>126M nps. As you and Ed noted ebf of DB is 4. No matter how they prune, those 2
>numbers stand.
>
>Then time to finish depth 18 would be x*4^17/126Mnps, where x depends on search
>model, qsearch, extensions, SE etc. That x can not be less then 30 (no qsearch),
>more like 1000 for their search model. 4^17/126Mnps = 136 sec.
>for x=30 we get 68 minutes to finish depth 18; for x=1000 we'll get 2266
>minutes. In the match DB searched for about 3 minutes/move.
>
>3) When DB sees some tactics in 10(6) line, is was noted that current PC
>programs see that in depths 10-12 (current programs heavily prune and extend way
>less comparing to DB).


>No matter what is true, you have to agree some things are not consistent here.

Right.

Now let's have a look at things from Bob's point of view and assume the
information is correct. Most of the time the logs shows 10(6) and 11(6). Can the
host (the IBM RS/6000 SP from 1997) do a 10-11 ply brute force search with all
those heavy extensions? If so, it then will all depend how fast the chess chips
are doing their 6 ply searches. Each chip is claimed to do 2-2½M NPS. I can not
find an average time for doing a typical 6 ply search in the hardware but if is
an accepatable time it is maybe doable?

Ed


>-Andrew-



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.