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Subject: Re: My conversation with Hsu.......

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 06:06:19 02/26/02

Go up one level in this thread


On February 26, 2002 at 01:14:12, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On February 26, 2002 at 00:09:42, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On February 25, 2002 at 15:34:43, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On February 25, 2002 at 15:08:40, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>>On February 25, 2002 at 13:17:22, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On February 25, 2002 at 10:35:00, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was recently in contact with Hsu, where I asked him if there was anyway that
>>>>>>he would either a.) sell the technology in DB or b.) donate this information to
>>>>>>someone (Hyatt comes to mind) who would put it to use and keep it safe from
>>>>>>being commercial use.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Basically he told me he only bought the rights to rematch Kaspy (who refused).
>>>>>>And to keep IBM off his back, if he decided to make a Shogi engine.  Period.  No
>>>>>>other reasons.  He will never sell/commercialize/donate/share his information.
>>>>>>Ever.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>What a terrible, terrible dissappointment.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not disappointment for me
>>>>>I guess that the thing is simply not strong enough.
>>>>
>>>>That is absolutely the _worst_ reasoning I have ever seen.  Do you also
>>>>guess that when it rains when you have something planned, that the clouds
>>>>have something against you?
>>>>
>>>>It was strong enough to smash computer programs for a long while.  It was
>>>>strong enough to beat kasparov in a 6 game match.  I'll bet _other_ engine
>>>>authors wish theirs was "not that strong"...
>>>
>>>I said *is* not strong enough and not *was* not strong enough
>>
>>Hsu has already written that his chess chip in .18 micron would search around
>>30M nodes per second.  I think everyone would find that plenty strong enough
>>since it is 15 times faster than quad boxes...
>
>30M NPS and an EBF=4 will search a little less deeply as 1M NPS and EBF=3. At 2M
>NPS...
>

Yes...  and it will _also_ have fewer errors in the search.  Given two
searches, one with null-move R=3 to depth N, and one with no null-move,
to depth N-1, I'll take N-1 every time...



>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>IE they didn't win most every ACM event after 1986 because of of luck...
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>It is not clear if the result of deeper blue against kasparov is better than the
>>>>>result of Rebel against van wely if you remember that van wely trained a lot
>>>>>against rebel before the match when kasparov could not train against something
>>>>>similiar to deeper blue.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>There's _still_ quite a jump from van Wely to Kasparov...  And van Wely wasn't
>>>>playing for a $1,000,000 prize either.
>>>
>>>I agree that kasparov is clearly better than van wely but van wely admitted that
>>>he trained by playing 100 games against Rebel and the question in comparing the
>>>results is how much elo you can get by preparing against a known computer and
>>>not only against computers.
>>>
>>>The 1000000$ prize did not help kasparov to play better.
>>
>>I disagree.  It was a _strong_ motivation.  I would work _much_ harder to
>>win 1M dollars than I would to win 1000.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>He played well in 4 of the games but in the games that he lost he did  mistakes
>>>that he usually does not do against humans.
>>>
>>>Kasparov never resigned in a drawn position against humans and he simply
>>>believed that the machine is stonger than it's real strength(I guess that he
>>>believed that Qe3 cannot be a draw because the machine could not blunder to let
>>>him a tactical draw so he did not check it when it was clear that it had better
>>>position)
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>
>>
>>I won't try to speculate on what he did or didn't think.  But your idea doesn't
>>make much sense.  Why would he assume that some position was won,
>>and then assume that the machine wouldn't make a mistake and allow a perp by
>>Qe3?  If that were true, wouldn't he have simply resigned at the start of the
>>game rather than playing on?



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