Author: Tanya Deborah
Date: 11:06:54 04/12/02
Go up one level in this thread
On April 12, 2002 at 11:50:03, David Dory wrote: >On April 12, 2002 at 03:51:14, Uri Blass wrote: > >>How can you know it when the thing never played on equal hardware against other >>programs? >> >>I believe that the algorithms of it were not world class and it was better than >>computers of that time thanks to better hardware inspite of inferior software. > >Uri, you're a chuckle! > >Hsu and team had ALREADY MADE A WORLD CHAMP - DEEP THOUGHT. Then they re-did it >with TWO more revisions, DB and Deeper Blue. Increasing it's hardware, which as >has been mentioned, is the biggest factor in chess computer improvement in the >past 20 years. (Try running Fritz on a real clunker CPU/system for a hoot!) > >Then they increased it's software side with lots of GM input. > >But because of a move here, a move there, (and HSU has stated that DB had a bug >causing it to not always select the best move it found), some guys decide: > >** That's not good! ** > >When you read what Hsu wrote, you know right off - the guys a total bright bulb, >and he was totally into computer chess. Oh, and his team had several other >Ph.D's with lots of experience, also working on DB. Lots of backing from IBM. > >If a bunch of Ph.D's and/or World chess champions programmers (who had nothing >to gain from saying it, monetarily), were saying "DB is not as good as Fritz on >a good PC", I'd consider that. > >But when I hear people who can NOT program a top chess player, go on and on >about "this move" or "that move" of DB being bad, well that just doesn't cut it >with me. Every program plays questionable moves now and then. We've seen >thousands of them in CCC/rgcc over the years. They're useless for any kind of >meaningful comparison of strength, and you know that better than most, I'm quite >sure! > >I'm not concerned about DB never playing Fritz on equal hardware. If you could >somehow compare just the software, because of the on-going work on Fritz, it >might be stronger than DB. But that's my point - you can't. Deep Blue was >hardware just as much as software, and that's why Deeper Blue still would be >world champ today if it was playing. > >Some day, a program (and system) will be stronger than DB, but that's not >happened yet. > Actually, programs are better than DB, if they run in a fast computer(up to 1ghz) . You can compare them it in the same way that Kramnik did it. Fritz really choose _better_ moves than DB made.. How you can explain this??? The hardware was not enought for DB???? Fritz 7 is a great program, and in 5 years, programmers made a very good work. Deep Blue was a very stupid program and i really do not believe that DP search 200 M. If Deep Blue run in a PC, I believe that it will be _weak_ in compare with the first programs in SSDF list. If you want compare Fritz with DB, you will need to run Fritz in the same machine that DP ran in 1997. How stronger could be Fritz searching 200N per second??? I guess that it will be very very _Powerfull_ I also do not believe that DP search 200 M >And it won't happen on a 600MHz laptop, no matter how much Kramnik may want it >to make us believe it, for his own financial gain! <chuckle, chuckle> > >Dave > >>I think that every result that is not convincing win for kramnik is a surprise >>under these conditions. > >I think you're putting your own spin on this, Uri. If Fritz is better than DB on >a little laptop, it should kick Kramnik's butt to the moon on a hot 8 CPU >monster, with all those "better" algorithms.
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