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Subject: Re: Fritz is a GM

Author: Don Dailey

Date: 19:58:52 07/21/98

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On July 21, 1998 at 07:01:20, Amir Ban wrote:

>On July 20, 1998 at 21:34:57, Don Dailey wrote:
>
>
>>Although I don't have the same respect for Deep Thought that Bob Hyatt
>>does, I still have a lot of respect for it.  It has beaten my program
>>twice, and both times probably prevented my program from becoming
>>world champion.  Two games is a small sample to be sure, but common
>>sense makes me believe this was no fluke.
>>
>
>I still wonder sometime why you played 14...Kh8? against it in Hong-Kong. In the
>opening at least, DB made every effort to lose this game. Didn't you want to win
>it ?
>
>
>>I don't think Deep Thought (or Deep Blue) is invincible and you would
>>see many wins and draws against it but  I have no doubt it would
>>still dominate the micro's.  Murray estimated his odds of winning
>>that championship at about 50/50.  He recognized that Deep Blue would
>>be a heavy favorite in any single game but that dodging 5 bullets
>>is a harder task.   I was more optimistic than even they were,
>>thinking Deep Thought had about a 70% chance of winning.  As it
>>turned out they drew a game and lost a game and this put them out
>>of it.
>
>That's exactly what happened to me, in the same tournament. So I figure that I,
>too, must have had 70% chance of winning. Right ?
>
>I've heard these sort of arguments before, and they are nonsense. The same sort
>of arguments were used to show that Fritz, who won, had a 10% or so chance of
>winning the tournament. If you listen to these arguments carefully, you will be
>convinced that this tournament not only does not weaken Deep-Blue's standing as
>the best chess computer, but actually reinforces it.
>
>The thesis behind these arguments is approximately this: Deep-Blue is
>self-evidently the strongest, it scored this result in this tournament, so let's
>compute the probability for the result. Interestingly enough, the people making
>this argument do not seem interested in revising or qualifying their premise
>that Deep-Blue is strongest. You would think that holding a tournament is done
>precisely with the aim of getting a better estimate of who is stronger and who
>is weaker.
>
>We'll never know if Deep-Blue was unlucky to score only 3.5 points, or lucky to
>score so many. The default assumption is that it scored just what it deserved,
>and there is no other scientific conclusion of any significance. The
>unspectacular quality of its games in this tournament also more or less agrees
>with the result.
>
>Amir

You probably didn't understand what I was saying here.  I didn't
make this guess AFTER the tournament, I made it BEFORE  the tournament.

Campbell did the same thing and used the same line of reasoning I did.

I was mainly surprised because he was estimating the superiority of
Deep Blue over the others less than I was, to come up with the 50%
number.

If you want to say this was foolish speculation, I cannot argue with
you, there is not enough data to make a reasonable statement of odds.

You are correct to say that based on the results of that tournament
you cannot claim a superiority for them, but you are incorrect in
your observation that I was saying this.  This is the second time
you have done the same exact thing to me.  I am not very good with
words but your english is very good indeed and I didn't think what
I said was that ambigious.


- Don



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