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Subject: Re: So I contacted a lawyer today, Jeroen............

Author: Mike Hood

Date: 22:38:01 05/03/02

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Thanks for your research, but I presume you received this legal advice from an
American lawyer, so it's only valid for legal arguments in the USA.

On May 03, 2002 at 17:13:59, Slater Wold wrote:

>First of all, I want to state that I do NOT support and/or condone the stealing
>of others works for their own good.  If you want a good opening book, make your
>own.  Jeroen spent a LOT of time perfecting his book, and it IS his work, not
>anyone elses.  Don't be lazy.  Make your own.
>
>HOWEVER, in every case, there are 2 sides.  Each side has their arguement, and
>not always is someone clearly the winner of the arguement.  Remember, even the
>most cold-blooded killers get a defense in court, and who wants to defend
>someone who you KNOW is guilty?  Neverless, I take legal matters such as Robert
>Hyatt takes math and science.  You post a thread that 432423 + 234325 is
>somewhere around 66,000 and Hyatt's going to add them together, and give you an
>ACTUAL figure.  That's all I am doing here, giving an ACTUAL figure.
>
>
>The company I work for gives all its employees free legal representation.  While
>not all legal procedings are covered, all questions/research over the phone are.
> I called a "company" lawyer a few days ago and presented him with Jeroen's
>problem.  This is what he told me:
>
>1.)  If Jeroen has *ever* gotten paid 1 penny from Rebel, the books are not his.
> If Ed or Christophe have ever bought him dinner, given him any kind of reward
>and/or compensation, he has NO legal claim to his books.  This is a "for-hire"
>copyright, and according to US and International copyright laws, if you are
>compensated for something that recieves and/or is claimed under copyright laws,
>the copyright is not that of the creator, rather the person who paid for the
>work.
>
>2.)  Because the books are sold as part of a "Chess Program" the book would
>actual fall under the "Chess Program" copyright.  You cannot copyright 10 things
>and sell them all under the same title.  They all must be copyrighted together.
>In other words, works are protected under copyright.  NOT parts of work.
>
>3.)  Only the code that generates chess moves are protected under copyright.
>Not the actual moves that it plays.  Example:  If I can get Crafty to play every
>single move that Rebel 4.0 will play, at the same ply, same speed, with the same
>PV, but can do it with at least 40% different code, I am not in violation of any
>copyright laws.  This is the same part of the law that makes it impossible for
>me as a chess player, to get sued for copyright infrigment if I am caught using
>a chess program in a REAL chess match (cheating).  Once again, only the code of
>the program is covered under copyright laws, NOT the moves it makes.
>
>4.)  Because the book is SOLD, it holds "free use".  Example:  Say I as a human,
>were to study Jeroen's book for a year.  Can he sue me because I play his
>opening lines in a REAL OTB game?  NO HE CANNOT.  Not even if there comes a day
>where I have Jeroen's entire tournament book in my head.  Therefore, if I put
>work into going through his books, and import them into my engine, there is no
>copyright violation.  Because I am using knowledge that is readily available to
>ANYONE who has bought the program, and importing them based on what the program
>I bought is telling me, I have every right as a paying customer to use the
>knowledge given to me by this program.
>
>5.) It IS illegal to hack a computer program to extract ANY data that it would
>never display on the screen.  Therefore, if I obtained Jeroen's book by hacking
>the program and/or book format, I would be in violation of SEVERAL laws.
>Including copyright laws.
>
>And to boot:
>
>6.)  Because Jeroen is an employee of Rebel, his actions and/or threats are a
>direct reflection of the Rebel company.  Therefore, if Jeroen convinces the ICCA
>to write a rule that says an opening book must be original, and there comes a
>time where he claims someone is using his book, Jeroen and Rebel better be damn
>sure they've copied it in an illegal way.  Cause calling someone out as a
>cheater is slander, and it usually comes at a hefty price.
>
>
>Like I said, I am not protecting anyone who may want, or who may have stole
>Jeroen's work.  But it's not exactly "illegal".  If you don't want someone to
>steal your lines, don't sell them.



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