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Subject: Re: what do chess programmers really want from their programs

Author: Marc van Hal

Date: 14:29:49 05/29/02

Go up one level in this thread


On May 28, 2002 at 15:33:00, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On May 28, 2002 at 14:47:17, K. Burcham wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>I have been curious about what motivates chess programmers. What do they really
>>want from their creation?
>>
>>1. Money
>>2. Number one on SSDF list
>>3. To Win most games against human GM
>
>This is my goal...  (#3 above).
>
>
>>4. To gain more Fans
>>5. To be looked at as number one programmer
>>6. Attention & fame
>>7. Only to beat their last version
>>8. could care less about any of the above---just a casual hobby
>>
>
>There is a number 9.  "academic research".  What is a chess program capable
>of doing?  With a parallel search?  With more knowledge?  With learning?  Etc.
>The list is long and the work is _far_ from being completed by anybody.  I've
>always been fascinated by a "machine" doing the intellectual things that a
>"human" does when playing chess.  Perhaps it is my love for the old Star Trek
>form of science fiction that has been driving this interest for 30+ years...
>
>Intresting looking at starwars you also have to try to find ideas nobody had ever thought about before.
And put them in practice.
>
>>
>>
>>I have often wondered who is buying these programs. I have a large family.
>>If I ask any of these people who Fritz7 is, they would not have a clue. If I ask
>>someone I work with who Century 4 is, they would not have a clue. 95% of the
>>people on the street have not heard of Shredder 6 Paderborn. No one I work with
>>has ever heard of Chessbase. No one in my family has ever heard of chessbase. I
>>wonder what the income is for the top programmers. Not to know their salary, but
>>I am curious if the income from their programs is enough to motivate them to
>>pursue a better program than their last. Of course we are talking about the top
>>selling commercial programs.
>>
>>Also I have noticed in playing GM, most programs could care less if the GM is
>>closing all files. If there was an expensive program that had been tuned and
>>tested to play humans, I would buy this. But i would assume there is no market
>>for the work that it would take to produce this. maybe also this human program
>>would be weak against other programs on SSDF list. also if there was a "tuned
>>for programs only book", that was expensive, I would buy this.
>>
>>I wonder how some of the programmers test their changes as they decide to work
>>on another version. This would be very critical to decide to make changes to a
>>strong program that is already top five on SSDF list. Maybe some have  test
>>positions that they trust to use as a standard. maybe they play other programs
>>in different time controls and see what results are compared to version before
>>changes. I cant believe that beta testers give accurate feedback for program
>>strength adjustments. (except maybe Sarah, Jonas, etc.) it would seem from some
>>posts and program releases, beta testers are not giving the type of feedback
>>necessary to prevent bugs being released to public. One of the top programs was
>>released last year, and it was very unprofessionally managed before release. as
>>soon as it was released, a huge list developed for patches and complaints. I
>>laughed at that one, but I bought it anyway.
>>
>>If there was an expensive program that was optimized for smp, that was stronger
>>than other smp commercial programs, I would buy it. But only if the price was
>>high enough to keep the casual program buyer from purchasing it.
>>
>>If a single processor program was released, that proved it was much better than
>>any other top program, and if it was expensive, I would buy it.
>>
>>You have seen what some chess program buyers will spend on hardware. It would be
>>the same with an expensive program. If a new program was released, and sold for
>>$350 to $500, became number one on SSDF list by the largest margin. This same
>>program everyone says is beating all programs, most of the time. At game
>>servers, there is small group of members that win most games using this program.
>>Would this sell? I think there is a market for this level of program.
>>But it would seem that one or more GM would have to be on payroll for helping
>>programmer with new version. if three 2600 GM were on Chess tiger 16 payroll for
>>one year full time working on book, knowledge and playing 1000's of games, with
>>feed back to programmer----seems this would be very strong. also it would seem
>>if a programmer could employ 20 Sarah types, to test matches with new changes to
>>program, playing 1000's of games against other top programs to give feedback to
>>programmer so that he can decide on final changes to make to program.
>>
>>Just some thoughts I have.
>>kburcham



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