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Subject: Re: Algorithms vs. knowledge - What to do next?

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 06:39:18 06/04/02

Go up one level in this thread


On June 04, 2002 at 09:25:24, Uri Blass wrote:

>On June 04, 2002 at 08:59:10, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On June 04, 2002 at 08:29:12, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On June 04, 2002 at 07:17:03, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On June 04, 2002 at 02:33:55, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>I have been wasting a lot of time in search past years.
>>>>
>>>>Like last months i have wasted my time working on forward pruning.
>>>>
>>>>Sure i can search 3 ply deeper with it (and kicking out singular
>>>>extensions and other extensions).
>>>>
>>>>However if i do that, then it scores simply 20-25% worse in tests
>>>>against commercial programs.
>>>>
>>>>The reason was not so hard to find for me. It simply goes for 1
>>>>move and stays with that move. The rest gets forward pruned. Chances
>>>>to find a superb move is way smaller.
>>>
>>>In this case it is a bad way of using forward pruning.
>>>The idea of forward pruning is to prune tactical blunders and not to prune
>>>positional moves.
>>
>>Fritz7 is doing opposite of pruning tactics. It seems to only prune positional
>>lines. Idem for junior. Junior only sees tactics deeper. It simply
>>gives for a simple rook move like Rab1 (if b-file isn't an
>>open file) 2 ply penalty (or better the move costs around 3 ply
>>to make).
>
>I do not think to try to do the same as Fritz and Junior.
>The first idea to save time is by pruning of tactical blunders and pruning of
>positional moves seems to be less simple but it does not mean that it is
>impossible.
>
>I also do not consider what Junior does as pruning(if your guess about it is
>correct).
>It can be described as not doing extensions in the case of 2 ply panelty and
>doing negative extensions in the case of 3 plies panelty.

Well fact is that positional lines at depth=19 units sometimes only seem
to get searched 6 ply sometimes by junior.

That's the biggest positional pruning any program is doing. Most likely
searching positoinal deeper doesn't bring them more because they are
based upon piece square tables.

>Pruning for me means simply to return evaluation without searching of legal
>moves of the opponent.
>Except null move pruning I do it only when the remaining depth is
>small(otherwise it is very risky).

That doesn't prune enough to get a bunch of plies deeper though.

What fritz is doing is getting it 3 ply deeper or so and what junior is
doing is getting it 5 ply deeper or so.

>Uri





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